Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

LHW99

Totally different from giving salad a chlorine wash before packing and distribution.

Unfortunately that doesn't prevent food poisoning bugs - perhaps you should have a look at the C5 documentary aired recently.
https://www.whatsontv.co.uk/events/secrets-supermarket-food-c5-7-mar-19/

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

I don't think you are aware of the strength of feeling in the country amongst leave voters.

There is a difference between being aware and caring. The people with the strongest feeling to leave are the ones that deserve to be ignored.

kabayiri

phillw wrote: »

A lot of people care and others simply assume that the food is of good quality. If we allow low quality food then it increases the drain on the NHS.

...

In truth, I don't think we care enough in the UK about food quality.

And...to give credit to the French, I always found the quality of the food over there ... even in the canteen... of a higher standard. (Plus they were willing to pay more)

I spent a lot of time at a friend's food processing business, and so many conversations with the supermarket client came down to price.

Recently, my relative took over a couple of food businesses, and it felt like not much had changed. Okay, many of the staff were EE workers, but the same complaints about price and about staff not following hygiene rules were present.

This is a wider topic than Brexit though.

Herzlos

If, as you say, it all comes down to price, and all regulations are out the window (because we can't check them), how long do you think it'll take squeezed companies to buy in the cheaper meat?

ukcarper wrote: »

Isn't the reason we have been distracted for three years because the majority of MPs have refused to accept result.

If MPs had refused to accept the result we'd have binned Brexit 3 years ago and been back to normal by now. They've spent 3 years trying to find a way to make it work, and failed because it's not actually possible.


Do you honestly think there'll be no political fall out from MP's saying "well this is going to be an unmitigated disaster, but a majority of 1.9% said we should do it so lets do it"? If it goes badly (which it can only do), who do you think the people are going to blame? The people who voted or the MP's who knew it was a bad idea and did it anyway?

ukcarper wrote: »

I don't think you are aware of the strength of feeling in the country amongst leave voters.

I am, and I have serious doubts that many of them will be satisfied by Brexit - all of their issues will still be there (overcrowding, lack of jobs, foreigners, etc) but will be compounded by extra austerity. They'll moan about Poles stealing all of their jobs, and then they'll moan their factories are closing. They'll moan that Poles are filling up hospital waiting rooms and then they'll moan that waiting times double because there's no staff or money. They'll moan that Poles are buying all the houses, and then they'll moan they can't buy a house because they can't get a job. And so on. The vocal Leavers on the protest marches are going to be upset at whatever happens, because they don't actually know what they are angry about. The moderate ones will be upset because they've just been screwed over. The only ones that'll be happy about it are the elites the Leavers think they are protesting about - they'll make a fortune and buy up a lot of assets whilst the poor who voted for change are being made poorer.


Leaving will have the worst impact on the stereotypical Leavers, but they don't seem to realize that yet.



I think you're unaware of the strength of feeling of your fellow remainers too - we feel betrayed by our politicians for entertaining this farce for so long already, and we'll be even more betrayed if we leave to placate the right wing. The thing is, though, there are more Remainers than Leavers now.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Fair enough. We don't actually eat out very often, if we do it tends to be at a restaurant very well known to the family, and with a very good reputation within the town in which it is based. They value that reputation and would not risk it by buying in meat from a less than trustworthy source.

They might buy from a reputable source, but unless they buy it all direct from farm/butcher, you've no real way of knowing where their supplier got it from. That's why we have those regulations in the first place.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

If, as you say, it all comes down to price, and all regulations are out the window (because we can't check them), how long do you think it'll take squeezed companies to buy in the cheaper meat?






If MPs had refused to accept the result we'd have binned Brexit 3 years ago and been back to normal by now. They've spent 3 years trying to find a way to make it work, and failed because it's not actually possible.


Do you honestly think there'll be no political fall out from MP's saying "well this is going to be an unmitigated disaster, but a majority of 1.9% said we should do it so lets do it"? If it goes badly (which it can only do), who do you think the people are going to blame? The people who voted or the MP's who knew it was a bad idea and did it anyway?





I am, and I have serious doubts that many of them will be satisfied by Brexit - all of their issues will still be there (overcrowding, lack of jobs, foreigners, etc) but will be compounded by extra austerity. They'll moan about Poles stealing all of their jobs, and then they'll moan their factories are closing. They'll moan that Poles are filling up hospital waiting rooms and then they'll moan that waiting times double because there's no staff or money. They'll moan that Poles are buying all the houses, and then they'll moan they can't buy a house because they can't get a job. And so on. The vocal Leavers on the protest marches are going to be upset at whatever happens, because they don't actually know what they are angry about. The moderate ones will be upset because they've just been screwed over. The only ones that'll be happy about it are the elites the Leavers think they are protesting about - they'll make a fortune and buy up a lot of assets whilst the poor who voted for change are being made poorer.


Leaving will have the worst impact on the stereotypical Leavers, but they don't seem to realize that yet.



I think you're unaware of the strength of feeling of your fellow remainers too - we feel betrayed by our politicians for entertaining this farce for so long already, and we'll be even more betrayed if we leave to placate the right wing. The thing is, though, there are more Remainers than Leavers now.






They might buy from a reputable source, but unless they buy it all direct from farm/butcher, you've no real way of knowing where their supplier got it from. That's why we have those regulations in the first place.

I think there will be problems whatever happens but ignoring the wishes of 17million people will not be good for democracy in this country.

I do feel betrayed by MPs compromise means not getting everything you want both sides seem unable to understand that. I voted remain accept we have to leave and accept that we can't have all benefits of EU and leave, I was hoping MPs would be more flexible.

Herzlos

You're saying 17m people here to make it sound like an impossibly big number. Why don't you use the percentages?


You're saying you can't ignore the wishes of 51.9%, I contest that a no-deal brexit is still ignoring the wishes of almost all of those 51.9% because none of their concerns (whatever they are, we haven't asked) will be addressed. So you're going to upset almost all of them.


What you're also forgetting is that following that 51.9% off a cliff is ignoring the wishes of that 48.9% of people. None of them are going to be happy either.


There are lots of compromises, all shot down as treachery or betrayal. We could have followed the Norway model and been half-in/half-out and sort of satisfied most people - plenty of Leavers would be happy with it as would plenty remainers.


Remainers have spent nearly 3 years trying to find a compromise that'll make Leavers happy, but Leavers don't generally seem to know what they want, or understand why the few things they ask for aren't possible (like the cake-and-eat-it Brexit).


May is doing a pretty terrible job of compromise, in that's she's found a deal everyone hates. She needs to decide who she's going to upset and get on with it.

mayonnaise

ukcarper wrote: »

I think there will be problems whatever happens but ignoring the wishes of 17million people will not be good for democracy in this country.

I do feel betrayed by MPs compromise means not getting everything you want both sides seem unable to understand that. I voted remain accept we have to leave and accept that we can't have all benefits of EU and leave, I was hoping MPs would be more flexible.

Yes yes we know. Must have been the 427th time you mentioned it.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

You're saying 17m people here to make it sound like an impossibly big number. Why don't you use the percentages?


You're saying you can't ignore the wishes of 51.9%, I contest that a no-deal brexit is still ignoring the wishes of almost all of those 51.9% because none of their concerns (whatever they are, we haven't asked) will be addressed. So you're going to upset almost all of them.


What you're also forgetting is that following that 51.9% off a cliff is ignoring the wishes of that 48.9% of people. None of them are going to be happy either.




There are lots of compromises, all shot down as treachery or betrayal. We could have followed the Norway model and been half-in/half-out and sort of satisfied most people - plenty of Leavers would be happy with it as would plenty remainers.

There is a big difference between no deal and not leaving. People might come to realise the error of voting leave but the responsibility of that is theirs. Mays deal was a compromise Labours proposals are not. I believe that Parliament has undermined our position and if they truly accepted that we should leave we might have got a better deal.

ukcarper

mayonnaise wrote: »

Yes yes we know. Must have been the 427th time you mentioned it.

Yes because it shows that some remainers have accepted the results and I don't think I'm alone.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

There is a big difference between no deal and not leaving. People might come to realise the error of voting leave but the responsibility of that is theirs. Mays deal was a compromise Labours proposals are not. I believe that Parliament has undermined our position and if they truly accepted that we should leave we might have got a better deal.

Why weren't Labours proposals not leaving? Because they want to remain in a customs union, and that doesn't satisfy your idea of what Leave means? Almost anything between no deal and no brexit satisfy leaving. Unfortunately, they are all excluded by Mays red lines.