Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Yeah, and almost immediately the EUs behaviour turned you into a hard-core leaver in perpetuity.
You're not at all playing the 'I used to be a remainer false flag game.

I'm not a hard core leaver just a realist who believes if you hold a referendum you should at least in part honour the result. But from where I'm sitting the choice is pretty much ignore result or go full steam for the hardest possible brexit.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

I do, I live in an area that is full of them.

I don't know what type of leavers you have there (there are many) but if you don't have any of the "we won the war, why aren't they doing what we said" or "we coped with ration books, why do we need them" then I can send you a red bus load.



I think we can, well not ignore it but like when you wake up after sleeping with someone because you were drunk. Instead of pretending they were better looking, just pretend we left the EU and rejoined.



I'm not convinced, you spoke like a leaver from the beginning. You're a less believable remainer than Theresa May.

I know plenty of leavers and none are like you say, I don't agree with them but I don't hold them in contempt which you appear to.

I think that our position within EU would be considerably weakened it we ignore result of referendum and it would cause damage to democracy in this country.

I've made it clear who I blame for this mess and it the vast majority of MPs who could have prevented referendum.

SpiderLegs

ukcarper wrote: »

I'm not a hard core leaver just a realist who believes if you hold a referendum you should at least in part honour the result. But from where I'm sitting the choice is pretty much ignore result or go full steam for the hardest possible brexit.

The answer is obvious.
Most MPs (labour and Tory) say they respect the result of the referendum. Most remain voters are also at pains to (pretend) they respect it too.

So all we have to do is accept we leave and have one more referendum where the question is Mays deal or no deal.

phillw

SpiderLegs wrote: »

The answer is obvious.
Most MPs (labour and Tory) say they respect the result of the referendum. Most remain voters are also at pains to (pretend) they respect it too.

So all we have to do is accept we leave and have one more referendum where the question is Mays deal or no deal.

Which is effectively no deal or no brexit, why not just put that on the ballot?

ukcarper wrote: »

I know plenty of leavers and none are like you say, I don't agree with them but I don't hold them in contempt which you appear to.

I don't hold them in contempt, but I hold their twisted/illogical/impossible views in contempt. I know a leaver who did it to get rid of the WTD, which I actually accept is possible. I've pointed out that I don't think the majority of leave voters will be happy about what he wants to do, but it was at least an honest reason.

I've yet to find a leaver that can accept a remainer point of view.

ukcarper wrote: »

I think that our position within EU would be considerably weakened it we ignore result of referendum and it would cause damage to democracy in this country.

Do you have no clue about the EU or are you just saying that to mess with peoples heads? There was an overwhelming amazement that we actually were taking any notice of such a slim vote & calls to ignore it. Leaving is seen as a defeat by the british against the british.

ukcarper wrote: »

I've made it clear who I blame for this mess and it the vast majority of MPs who could have prevented referendum.

This is one of the things that makes me think you voted leave all along.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Which is effectively no deal or no brexit, why not just put that on the ballot?



I don't hold them in contempt, but I hold their twisted/illogical/impossible views in contempt. I know a leaver who did it to get rid of the WTD, which I actually accept is possible. I've pointed out that I don't think the majority of leave voters will be happy about what he wants to do, but it was at least an honest reason.

I've yet to find a leaver that can accept a remainer point of view.



Do you have no clue about the EU or are you just saying that to mess with peoples heads? There was an overwhelming amazement that we actually were taking any notice of such a slim vote & calls to ignore it. Leaving is seen as a defeat by the british against the british.



This is one of the things that makes me think you voted leave all along.

This post goes to show how blinkered you are, I'm baffled by the fact that you think I voted leave because I was amazed and disappointed that MPs were stupid enough to call a referendum.

Perhaps the fact that I would like Mays deal to be accepted will convince you I voted remain.

Herzlos

We think you voted Leave because from the off you've posted nothing without a leave bias (that i can remember) whilst declaring you voted remain every other post. You've parroted every leave trope. I suspect going through your post history would show a sudden change of heart but I'm not bored enough to do that yet.

There are a few remainers on here who have decided we should respect the leave vote because of democracy but none of them have the same anti-EU fervour as you do.

I honestly don't care how you voted, I'm just pointing out that you claim to have voted remain so often it sounds disingenuous. It reminds me of that flurry of Twitter users abandoning the Labour party a few months ago, which after investigation it turned out none were members in the first place but part of a smear campaign.


Britain cancelling Brexit would show the EU a country that's come to it's senses and stopped being held hostage by it's right wing. Some of the EU will be a bit annoyed it took us so long but we'd be back to normal in no time.

If we leave and rejoin we'll never get back to where we were but the EU won't blame us for the idiocity of our grandparents.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

This post goes to show how blinkered you are, I'm baffled by the fact that you think I voted leave because I was amazed and disappointed that MPs were stupid enough to call a referendum.

Do you misinterpret people on purpose so you can attack them?

It's not that you're amazed and disappointed, but you use it as a kill shot that you think will end any discussion about the referendum.

It's more logical to say "I blame the MPs that voted for the referendum therefore we should ignore the referendum result." but you always put the opposite spin on it.

Feel free to express your disappointment, just don't expect anyone to think it's anything new or resolves anything.

ukcarper wrote: »

Perhaps the fact that I would like Mays deal to be accepted will convince you I voted remain.

No, because Theresa Mays deal is unclear what it actually is.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Do you misinterpret people on purpose so you can attack them?

It's not that you're amazed and disappointed, but you use it as a kill shot that you think will end any discussion about the referendum.

It's more logical to say "I blame the MPs that voted for the referendum therefore we should ignore the referendum result." but you always put the opposite spin on it.

Feel free to express your disappointment, just don't expect anyone to think it's anything new or resolves anything.




No, because Theresa Mays deal is unclear what it actually is.

Yet earlier you said it's remain.

I don't expect my views on Referendum vote to solve anything in fact I can't see a solution anytime soon if at all.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

Yet earlier you said it's remain.

At the moment that is what I think the end point will be because it's just the withdrawal agreement, so my opinion is that it will end up being no brexit as it gets embroiled down the road. The reason ERG doesn't like it is because we end up in the backstop all the time it's us that is acting in bad faith and they think that is what will happen.

However as it's unclear, I can't assume you have the same opinion about it as I do. Therefore it's no proof.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

At the moment that is what I think the end point will be because it's just the withdrawal agreement, so my opinion is that it will end up being no brexit as it gets embroiled down the road. The reason ERG doesn't like it is because we end up in the backstop all the time it's us that is acting in bad faith and they think that is what will happen.

However as it's unclear, I can't assume you have the same opinion about it as I do. Therefore it's no proof.

I don't believe that the EUs aim is to hold us in the back and that a solution would be found eventually.

But it's irrelevant now as deal has been rejected so the chaos continues and looks likely to continue for some time, unless EU does not agree extension.