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Grievance/Sexual Harassment
Comments
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I suggest that one way to do that is to believe what women tell you. When they say "I was being harassed", don't immediately start picking at what they're saying, suggesting their over-reacting, or misinterpreted things, or are partly to blame themselves for sending out "mixed signals" or by going to the staff party. Maybe you could accept that as capable human beings they can spot harassment when they see it. Maybe you could put a little *less* effort into dismissing what they say.
Do you not think that maybe reactions like the ones in this very thread are one of the reasons that many women choose not to report harassment? I mean, what's the point if everyone is just going turn around and tell you you're imagining it.
On reflection do you think it may have been wise to give the do a miss this year?0 -
I suggest that one way to do that is to believe what women tell you. - not without evidence. That is ridiculous. When they say "I was being harassed", don't immediately start picking at what they're saying, suggesting their over-reacting, or misinterpreted things, or are partly to blame themselves for sending out "mixed signals" or by going to the staff party. - I haven't; I have been clear in my points I think. The main one being that the OP should take steps to protect herself and to stand up for herself. Maybe you could accept that as capable human beings they can spot harassment when they see it. Maybe you could put a little *less* effort into dismissing what they say. - Unfortunately, as evidenced by this conversation my presumption that everyone is capable is quickly replaced with an understanding that some people are indeed unable to cope with life.
Do you not think that maybe reactions like the ones in this very thread are one of the reasons that many women choose not to report harassment? - The OP did report it (and rightly so given some of the comments), I will never sign up to the 'victim's charter' ie I will never simply accept someone's version of events without evidence. I mean, what's the point if everyone is just going turn around and tell you you're imagining it.
As you will see - since my posts are all there - I have in general supported the OP when she has given distinct examples.0 -
It wasn't her desk. She was at a work do and specifically chose to sit next to the person she alleges has been sexually harassing her. You don't think that a bit odd?
That would have been odd / misleading, but I don't think it is the correct understanding of the thread.
As I understand it, her manager was making inappropriate comments about her breasts at work and other inappropriate comments. This included an incident where the OP took off part of her uniform at work and sat down at a desk near her manager. After that she felt uncomfortable taking off her uniform.
She then put in a grievance claim, because of the above incidents.
The Christmas party was after that.0 -
This isn't a trial or a tribunal - we don't need things to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. We're not about to send someone to jail. What the OP has claimed is totally believable and consistent with the type of things we all *know* take place. Nothing she has said causes me to doubt her word.not without evidence. That is ridiculous.
Within *that* context why is it "ridiculous" to believe someone without evidence?
Easy to say when it's not you facing the situation - especially when it's a situation that you will almost certainly *never* experience.The main one being that the OP should take steps to protect herself and to stand up for herself.
Classy thing to say about someone being harassed.......some people are indeed unable to cope with life.0 -
That would have been odd / misleading, but I don't think it is the correct understanding of the thread.
As I understand it, her manager was making inappropriate comments about her breasts at work and other inappropriate comments. This included an incident where the OP took off part of her uniform at work and sat down at a desk near her manager. After that she felt uncomfortable taking off her uniform.
She then put in a grievance claim, because of the above incidents.
The Christmas party was after that.
I get that now, I'm more confused at what happened afterwards. I don't understand why having put in a grievance of this nature you would want to be anywhere near the person outside of work. Not even a works do.0 -
I wasn't talking about the OP...This isn't a trial or a tribunal - we don't need things to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. - you might not, I do. We're not about to send someone to jail. - you don't think that accusations send people to prison? There's many examples of exactly that What the OP has claimed is totally believable - yes and consistent - that's debateable with the type of things we all *know* take place. Nothing she has said causes me to doubt her word. - in general I agree
Within *that* context why is it "ridiculous" to believe someone without evidence? - Because these are serious accusations.
Easy to say when it's not you facing the situation - especially when it's a situation that you will almost certainly *never* experience. - You think I've never been discriminated against? Oh please...
It's easy to say because the OP is an adult., and I believe in autonomy and agency. I cant stand wrapping people in bubblewrap and treating then like toddlers. It's time people actually grew a backbone.
Classy thing to say about someone being harassed...(allegedly)0 -
you don't think that accusations send people to prison? There's many examples of exactly that
No, accusations don't send people to jail. They're not magic. Prosecutions send people to jail. Accusation <> prosecution. This is an internet forum not a trial. We're not members of the jury.
I don't believe you've ever been sexually harassed at work by a manager, no.You think I've never been discriminated against? Oh please...0 -
No, accusations don't send people to jail. - Really? ok... So you've never heard of remand? (and we don't have jails in this country) They're not magic. - tell that to the police. Prosecutions send people to jail. -No, prosecution leads to conviction. Accusation <> prosecution. This is an internet forum not a trial. We're not members of the jury. - Irrelevant. You don't get to dictate what I choose to believe.
I don't believe you've ever been sexually harassed at work by a manager, no.
Why's that, because I haven't provided any evidence?
But according to your logic you must believe me....0 -
I get that now, I'm more confused at what happened afterwards. I don't understand why having put in a grievance of this nature you would want to be anywhere near the person outside of work. Not even a works do.
Fair enough. Although in theory the employer has a legal duty to ensure that no further incidents take place, on a practical level they might have been best to leave it.0
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