If there is a second referendum ...

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

...
It's probably cheaper and less hassle in the long run to just pay what we owe, but nothing else about this is about logic.
...

If...this is true...then I'd get the Brexit secretary (whoever it is this week) to do the following :

- nip down to the Mint
- get 39 billion quids worth of pound coins
- shove them into a bunch of lorries
- park them outside Dover on 29th March
- let's see how keen our EU pals are on getting the 'valuable trade' through

We could even hide some of our more sanctimonious EU-philes amongst the cargo, to aid their escape from these horrible shores. Does a Lilly Allen or an Eddie Izzard have a metal allergy, anyone know?

bugslet

Herzlos wrote: »

Do we really lose money from foreign trucks that don't buy any fuel on the way through? I mean it's potential money but I'm not sure it's lost. There's also the tax/insurance will all be foreign.


But presumably (and I could be wrong as I'm not a trucker), few of the truckers drive across the country without interacting with the economy - bringing their own food/water, sleeping in laybys? Most of the truck friendly services I visit seem to be fairly busy most of the time and most have fees for staying > 2 hours. I'm assuming they are still a net drain though, considering the congestion and road damage.


I'm not against a daily levy though, it's only fair for them to pay for their road usage. Presumably UK hauliers are equally happy to pay a levy for every day they spend in the EU? I doubt they can necessarily take advantage of not needing to buy fuel whilst over there.

That was the figure quoted about two years ago for loss of fuel duty if every foreign truck was to use fuel bought in the UK. A truck will do around 10-12 mpg, hence it's not unusual to have 2 x 1500 litre tanks. Fill those up before entry into the UK and you won't have to fuel up before you exit.

There majority of foreign trucks you see will be East European registered with a Bulgarian or Romanian driver because they pay them extremely poorly. The drivers understandably buy as little as possible, and fair play to them, they generally knock up their own kitchens in the back of the trailer to cook rather than buy from a cafe.

There was a post on truck net not long ago about a Bulgarian in a layby for about 10 days. He waited, his mate brought him out a gearbox and they changed it in the layby:eek:. Much kudos to him, but in terms of generating anything to our economy, there was nothing. One of mine breaks down abroad, then I wouldn't be asking them to change a gearbox.

Maybe I should hire Bulgarian drivers!

bugslet

kabayiri wrote: »

If...this is true...then I'd get the Brexit secretary (whoever it is this week) to do the following :

- nip down to the Mint
- get 39 billion quids worth of pound coins
- shove them into a bunch of lorries
- park them outside Dover on 29th March
- let's see how keen our EU pals are on getting the 'valuable trade' through

We could even hide some of our more sanctimonious EU-philes amongst the cargo, to aid their escape from these horrible shores. Does a Lilly Allen or an Eddie Izzard have a metal allergy, anyone know?

There's very strict rules about shipping high value goods - we are talking sealed boxed trailers and livestock which should have access to fresh air and on board watering systems.

Someone would have to make a decision on which 'freight' was the more important;) I don't fancy Lilly's chances if your in charge:rotfl:

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

If...this is true...then I'd get the Brexit secretary (whoever it is this week) to do the following :

- nip down to the Mint
- get 39 billion quids worth of pound coins
- shove them into a bunch of lorries
- park them outside Dover on 29th March
- let's see how keen our EU pals are on getting the 'valuable trade' through

We could even hide some of our more sanctimonious EU-philes amongst the cargo, to aid their escape from these horrible shores. Does a Lilly Allen or an Eddie Izzard have a metal allergy, anyone know?

You could, but the actual bill is in Euros, and the EU has no obligation to collect or convert them, just as I couldn't pay my mortgage by leaving a bag of Euro's at the bus stop.


It'd likely also cause us more problems than them, even beyond making us look completely petty.
£39bn in £1 coins weighs in at 341,250,000 kg, and would require us to commission 9750 trucks @ 35,000kg a truck*. That'd completely choke up Dover and cost us a fortune in handling, for the EU to just turn around and go "Nah, pay us like adults".


I don't think there's any clause about interest on the outstanding debt, that could cripple us too.


Then if they took it, they'd be setting the exchange rate we paid at so that might not even cover the bill.


Things would go so much better if we just got on with the job instead of trying to come up with ways to be petty




*Yes, I have nothing else better to do.

wymondham

lisyloo wrote: »

Boris Johnson claims that no deal is closer to the type of brexit that people want.
Genuine question - How do we KNOW what type of brexit people want? (beyond a few small polls).

Difficult to know, but since people voted for Brexit, and this is true Brexit then it stands to reason its the preferred option of those who voted - I know I would rather this true Brexit than any EU led 'deal' that stops us having what we voted for....

kabayiri

wymondham wrote: »

Difficult to know, but since people voted for Brexit, and this is true Brexit then it stands to reason its the preferred option of those who voted - I know I would rather this true Brexit than any EU led 'deal' that stops us having what we voted for....

The default exit is the only option which gives us leverage in further negotiations IMO.

We could compare/contrast with May's deal, whereby Macron can hold us to ransom over fishing rights, and Spain will get all awkward over Gibraltar. Would it be a case of perennial backstop?

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

The default exit is the only option which gives us leverage in further negotiations IMO.

We could compare/contrast with May's deal, whereby Macron can hold us to ransom over fishing rights, and Spain will get all awkward over Gibraltar. Would it be a case of perennial backstop?

How do you figure that? We'd be seriously on the back foot, and would need to get a good deal before we lost our industries and the EU got over the lack of sales to us.

phillw

wymondham wrote: »

Difficult to know, but since people voted for Brexit, and this is true Brexit then it stands to reason its the preferred option of those who voted - I know I would rather this true Brexit than any EU led 'deal' that stops us having what we voted for....

Half the people who voted didn't want to leave the EU at all, the other half were done on a promise of a cake and eat it deal where everything instantly gets better in the country.

It's only after the referendum that people like reese mogg admitted that it will be much worse and won't have improved in our life times (it will however improve in his life time as he has a vested interest).

We don't know what the people who didn't or couldn't vote think.

Over the next week there will be child catcher like figures urging us that it's fine to leave on WTO terms.

adindas

Did you really watch what David Cameron was saying during the referendum ???

Did you really watch what US president Obama was saying during the referendum ???

Did you really watch what IMF was saying during the referendum ???

Has the referendum result been delivered and see the real outcomes, rather than economic prediction which many have been proven wrong in the past??

One life voting, doomsday, leaving the single market, custom union, doomsday, Uk is back on the que, bla bla bla ...

Result ? People have voted to leave the EU. end of.

Herzlos wrote: »

But Boris claimed that Brexit would be exactly like staying in, but without sending money to the EU or following their rules, and that we could halt the free movement parts we don't like. Wasn't he the first to claim that we could "have our cake and eat it"?


That's a long way from what a no deal Brexit will look like.


We haven't got a clue what kind of Brexit people want. It's hard to gauge even on here as the vocal Brexiteers keep changing their tune so that whatever the current idea of Brexit is happens to be exactly what've they've always wanted. You can see it if you can be bothered to trawl back through the forum history, it's full of "X is guaranteed, it's what we want, it's perfect" <X gets ruled out> "No-one wanted X, what makes you think we did? Prove it. I didn't say that.". <evidence> <silence>.


Maybe the EU will cave after we go WTO and give us our cake and eat it Brexit, who knows?

Arklight

adindas wrote: »

Did you really watch what David Cameron was saying during the referendum ???

Did you really watch what US president Obama was saying during the referendum ???

Did you really watch what IMF was saying during the referendum ???

Has the referendum result been delivered and see the real outcomes, rather than economic prediction which many have been proven wrong in the past??

One life voting, doomsday, leaving the single market, custom union, doomsday, Uk is back on the que, bla bla bla ...

Result ? People have voted to leave the EU. end of.

It's a fait accompli that that was the result of the referendum, but what happens next is rather open to negotiation. The Leave camp has disintegrated and there's no unified voice for Brexit, while there's a strong one for at least a reconsideration. While soundbites like, "We're leaving end of." - "Get over it remoaners," and other phrases sound very proud, they might not deliver what you want.

The news this evening was reporting the government blobbing at least £100k on a rehearsal of using an airport near Dover as a holding ground for thousands of stranded lorries that are expected in March. Meanwhile the mayor of Ostend has said Theresa May's promise of additional ferry routes by March is "completely impossible" within that timeframe.

One of the ferry companies has no ships. It is owned by the brother of a Tory MP though. What a surprise. Brexit delivering for the people there.

It is starting to finally sink in for many Leave voters exactly what they've voted for. And it is most definitely scaring the horses. And scared horses do not like change.