If there is a second referendum ...

kabayiri

StevieJ wrote: »

Who was that? Seems like it was current 'remainers' who kept us out of the Euro, Gordon Brown?

Not 'keeping out' at all.

We didn't meet the joining criteria, simple as that.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

Not 'keeping out' at all.

We didn't meet the joining criteria, simple as that.

Far from it.

Gordon Brown has said he was prepared to quit as Chancellor soon after Labour took office in 1997 if the government decided to join the euro.

He was "ready to resign" if he could not persuade colleagues, including Tony Blair, of the "grave risks" of signing up to the single currency at that time.

The disclosure is included in Mr Brown's new account of the 2008 banking crisis which has just been published.

BobQ

scaredofdebt wrote: »

My point is that losing your job isn't the same as being a few pennies worse off, potentially a lot worse than that.

Also I didn't get to vote on new technology - while that may lead to job losses it also has upsides.

You think our government has "real long term vision"?

:rotfl:

Quite. Its all very well for those in the economy who can adapt in this way, get another job and move on. But there are many who will not have the skills to change direction in this way. Sadly the Leavers response seems to be tough.

The Leave economic model advocated by the likes of Minford and Lyons takes no account of individuals.

BobQ

movilogo wrote: »

I did lose my job in 2008-9 recession. We were inside EU then. Economy goes up and down. There is no guarantee we shall be better off inside EU.

This is undoubtedly true but whatever the risks of losing one's job at present Brexit is not going to reduce those risks.

adindas

UK have helped Ireland a lot in the past. Look at what Ireland was doing the negotiation with the EU. Under the weak leadership from Theresa May UK have been insulted by small nation.

The mission to invade Ireland should be on the table. That is the cheapest solution to solve the border with northern Ireland.

Herzlos wrote: »

Most of that is also a fallacy, though.

We nearly did surrender to Germany. It's such a bizarre comparison though; we're not at War with the EU, and we're not being denied access to our own destiny.


How many voters were old enough now* to have been involved in either war? There does seem to be a national psyche rooted in the post-war baby boom period where kids grew up watching war movies.


I'm not sure what I'd do with the wars, particularly without the benefit of hindsight. I'd likely have agreed with both of them - there's a lot of trouble on our doorstep and we need to keep our allies and selves safe. Both wars would have affected us badly, and neither was of our own making.




*If you were born in 1930, you'd have been 9 when the war started, 15 when it ended and have some memory of it. It'd also make you 86 when the referendum happened. Average UK left expectancy is ~80.5 years.

BobQ

movilogo wrote: »

It is a fallacy to claim people are economically better off under the EU.

Here are few examples how:

• More people causes house price to push up. So you end up paying more for houses => less deposable income.
  
• Employers can keep wages low => less money on your pocket. On contrary, many low skilled/low paid workers (with a big number coming from EU) can claim income top up funded by tax payers => your tax is helping to create more profit for big businesses.
  
• EU students can claim tuition loan and if they leave UK it can't be recovered => EU students making it harder for your kids to study in Uni.
  
• Extra people are causing overload on public services like NHS, schools, roads etc.

It is not the overall GDP which matters but per captita GDP which matters more.

During any change some people are better off, some worse off and some remain more or less same. If being inside EU is so good, why financial crash happened before? Why Greece is permanently in trouble?

When UK didn't join Euro, some people predicted end of world for UK. See who is laughing now.

Its amazing how many people think that whatever their problem immigration is to blame.

.string.

BobQ wrote: »

Its amazing how many people think that whatever their problem immigration is to blame.

Yes it truly is. The Immigratio level, especially from the EU, could be regarded as a measure of how well the economy is performing.

cogito

Arklight wrote: »

It's a fait accompli that that was the result of the referendum, but what happens next is rather open to negotiation. The Leave camp has disintegrated and there's no unified voice for Brexit, while there's a strong one for at least a reconsideration. While soundbites like, "We're leaving end of." - "Get over it remoaners," and other phrases sound very proud, they might not deliver what you want.

The news this evening was reporting the government blobbing at least £100k on a rehearsal of using an airport near Dover as a holding ground for thousands of stranded lorries that are expected in March. Meanwhile the mayor of Ostend has said Theresa May's promise of additional ferry routes by March is "completely impossible" within that timeframe.

One of the ferry companies has no ships. It is owned by the brother of a Tory MP though. What a surprise. Brexit delivering for the people there.

It is starting to finally sink in for many Leave voters exactly what they've voted for. And it is most definitely scaring the horses. And scared horses do not like change.

Are you going to tell us which Tory MP you are referring to? We wouldn’t want to think that it’s something you just made up.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

Are you going to tell us which Tory MP you are referring to? We wouldn’t want to think that it’s something you just made up.

I think the directorship information points to a guy sharing the same name as a donor (Mark Bamford, owner of JCB) but is about 10 years younger, so it may be a red herring. I can't find a link to the discussion I'd seen on it.

Ross Thompson (Aberdeen South) shows up in a few google searches but not in the articles, which is kind of weird.


There's something suspicious about giving a contract to a holding company with bad government debts and no facilities or experience, without a tender, though. So I suspect there's something funny going on but it's covered up for now.

buglawton

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

It could well be said that the eu should be paying us.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4471334/LEO-McKINSTRY-explains-EU-owes-58bn.html

Their bank apparently plans to keep hold of our money for 35 years, we should turn around and demand payment of all of the above, that would more than settle the divorce bill.

And yes, it's in The Mail, but it doesn't make it any less accurate. If it was not accurate the eu would be asking for a rewrite, then another, then another …………..

It's been on my mind for some time that May's negotiating team has conspicuously avoided bringing up the capital assets and piled up cash that we've contributed and the EU expects to keep, in any of the deal making.