If there is a second referendum ...

BLB53

That's all it is. A 2 year window to work out the divorce arrangement

I wish it could have included the negotiations for a future trade arrangement in tandem with the withdrawal process. Many of the problems would then have been avoided.

Enterprise_1701C

BLB53 wrote: »

I wish it could have included the negotiations for a future trade arrangement in tandem with the withdrawal process. Many of the problems would then have been avoided.

It was the eu that said that could not happen. It is the eu that still can't believe they are losing their cash cow. They have fostered every problem they could find.

Lungboy

How can you possibly negotiate trade deals in tandem with the divorce deal? You need to know the detail of the divorce deal to build all of the subsequent trade deals...

BobQ

kabayiri wrote: »

Why? Where is the evidence for this?

They delayed initiating A50 by a year, precisely so that they had time to be ready.

The *only* knowable outcome from the A50 process is that there will be a parting at the end of the 2 year period, unless something is agreed which better suits both parties.

That's all it is. A 2 year window to work out the divorce arrangement.

People now act like the 'crashing out event' is some kind of surprise which crept up on us. It didn't.

As I said it is my view and nobody knows.
My view does not need evidence as it is my view

Whatever they thought by delaying A50 it has not worked. The evidence is that ministers keep expressing alternative views on what Brexit means.

It has crept up on them because too many Brexit leading supporters have contradicted the view now being being promoted as the default.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2018/mar/28/11-brexit-promises-leavers-quietly-dropped

MobileSaver

Matt_L wrote: »

Its very simple, we vote, we enact that note, ... We don't put the result on hold ... to first see if people may have changed their mind..

That's a ludicrous standpoint and is simply not true either legally or democratically. There is no time limit on when we can next have a referendum.

Brexit may get extended if all other EU members agree. Like many things in politics it may get extended again and again; your view seems to be that even if the extension goes on for years the British public can never again be asked what they want to happen until we have actually left - clearly a ridiculous stance that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Matt_L wrote: »

the only possible questions on a new ballot paper can be, Mays Deal or No Deal.

It would obviously be completely undemocratic to ignore the views of 14 million people who voted remain but I totally understand why Leavers are so terrified of another vote where Remain is an option.

Guerillatoker wrote: »

I think people advocating for another vote are being disingenuous.

I'm going to assume they expect the ballot to have 3 options: -Mays Deal -No Deal -Remain

This unfairly splits the Leave vote and almost guarantees a Remain result, unless some kind of proportional or alternative vote,

It goes without saying that all the Leave options would be aggregated and the only people coming out with the scaremongering assumption above are those who are desperate for a second referendum not to happen...

badmemory

What it needs as already said is a 2 part vote. Part 1 remain or leave. Part 2 if leave wins then no deal or another specified deal. That would not split the leave vote until after the result of the first part. Then everyone would get a say in the next part of the vote.


I am leaning towards (after my remain vote has lost) a no deal leave, because if we are going to leave lets actually do it, not stick around with no say. A bit like paying your monthly gym membership for years & never actually going - not very MSE!

Herzlos

LHW99 wrote: »

The same reason that we don't follow a GE with a second GE immediately afterwards to check if that's what people still want. If you really think we should have a second referendum 2 years down the line because it may no longer be the view of the majority, why not have them every 2 years, to see if we want to stay / leave the EU? Doing that would ensure nothing else ever got done in this country.

Isn't there an allowance for another GE if noone can form a government?

BobQ

Guerillatoker wrote: »

I voted remain but I think people advocating for another vote are being disingenuous.

I'm going to assume they expect the ballot to have 3 options:
-Mays Deal
-No Deal
-Remain

This unfairly splits the Leave vote and almost guarantees a Remain result, unless some kind of proportional or alternative vote, where the options are ranked by the voters, is used (which I doubt as it would be a further criticism of FPTP which is good to the Tories & I think such a vote is most likely to return a May's Deal result).

There is the option of proportional representation via a single transferrable vote. That way you could have any number of Leave options

Guerillatoker

BobQ wrote: »

There is the option of proportional representation via a single transferrable vote. That way you could have any number of Leave options

I don't see any justification for having any Leave options except "Mays Deal" or "No Deal"

If we put, say, "Norway-style Deal" on the ballot and it won, what would we do when the EU refused to play ball?

Filo25

kabayiri wrote: »

PM May would be expected to take up a formal position in any follow up referendum.

What would that be? She has to push for her deal to be on the list, purely for a show of competence.

But...she is a Remainer at heart, and this would be played upon during the referendum.

It's hard to see how she could win from another referendum on a personal level.

She would support her deal, I never detected much sign she was particularly bothered about the result either way during the original campaign, she nominally supported Remain so that she still looked "loyal" but did so little that she didn't annoy the Brexiters in the party, so had a clear run at the leadership when Cameron resigned.