If there is a second referendum ...

Herzlos

alewin wrote: »

So, if there did happen to be another referendum and people voted to remain in the EU this time, what happens then. Would that be it, or do we have a third referendum to make it best out of three?

Why not a fourth or a fifth.

If opinion keeps changing, why not? Eventually we'll figure out what it's meant to mean, and maybe Leave can provide a coherent strategy to achieve it at some point.

David_Evans

If the govt was intending to use 'Brexit' to distract the population from something - then reading this thread would indicate some success on their part.

I don't know exactly what it is that the govt are up to. But NIRP, dematerialisation and a 'war on cash' give some indications.

But when govts are in trouble, they'll find a way to get people either waving their little flags (eg Falklands War - both govts) or divided up amongst themselves (eg NI, Far Left v Far Right).

The MSM are acting as the govt puppets as usual.

MobileSaver

Tromking wrote: »

You seem to not want to explain to me why there’s a reluctance among MP’s to vote for a second referendum.

I haven't asked all 650 MPs so I can't explain something I don't definitively know the answer to. Perhaps you have and can share the answer?

I could speculate that perhaps it is because the majority think the first referendum was a huge mistake and a second one would be an even bigger one?

You seem to not want to explain how asking the people what they want is undemocratic?

Moby

May tells top MEPs there will be backstop in final Brexit deal

Antonio Tajani, president of the European parliament, and Guy Verhofstadt, the parliament’s lead Brexit spokesman, have been speaking to journalists after their meeting with Theresa May.

Here are the key points.

• Verhofstadt said May told them that the UK accepted that there had to be a backstop of some kind in the withdrawal agreement. He said she “assured us that there will be a backstop”. This reflects what May said in her speech in Belfast on Tuesday - an admission that angered some Tory Brexiters who thought that, because the Brady amendment they passed said that the backstop should be “replaced”, it would be removed in its entirety. Verhofstadt said:

It is important that Mrs May today in the meeting assured us that there will be a backstop, that - what she said already in Belfast - there is no question to remove the backstop. Because that is absolutely necessary for securing and safeguarding the Good Friday agreement, safeguarding the internal market and safeguarding also the peace process. For us, an all-weather backstop insurance is absolutely key.


So now we know the ERG are not going to get the backstop removed......so it looks like vassalage through some version of a soft brexit! seriously folks is this better than remaining in the EU.... It clearly isn't. We are now going to be second class ciitizens in Europe, paying for access to things that we now get for free and with no voting rights on future legislation.
Well at least I can say i had nothing to do with this!

Tromking

MobileSaver wrote: »

I haven't asked all 650 MPs so I can't explain something I don't definitively know the answer to. Perhaps you have and can share the answer?

I could speculate that perhaps it is because the majority think the first referendum was a huge mistake and a second one would be an even bigger one?

You seem to not want to explain how asking the people what they want is undemocratic?

I know the answer.
I think with your speculation you’re being a tad disingenuous.
You know why MP’s are reluctant to call a second referendum, but you can’t say it, can you?

ben501

MobileSaver wrote: »

Well, of course, why use a dictionary (that standard, globally recognised, impartial resource that gives the definitions of words) when you can link to a couple of web pages instead...

.. by the way the .gov.uk site doesn't even mention the word democracy! :rotfl:

You need a better search engine
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-uks-place-in-the-world-and-the-eu-referendum

From another Remain supporter (before she lost her moral standards)

Our democracy is precious, but it only works when everyone has their say.
That has to include you.
This referendum can be an opportunity - a watershed moment for Britain, and it can be a watershed moment for a new generation of voters.
If you’ve never voted before, give yourself the chance to take a first step towards building the country that you want and making our democracy work for you.

There will be no election in 5 years’ time to change our mind if we get this wrong.

kabayiri

MobileSaver wrote: »

...
Any sensible, fair-minded person would think that was quite a reasonable question to put to the people. Not surprisingly many Leave supporters are aghast and foaming at the bit in their hostility towards the outrageous, heinous, undemocratic notion that we should actually consider asking the people what they want to do...
...

IMO, you can ask the people again...but let's try and at least avoid the mistakes of last time.

Cameron was completely unprepared for the Leave vote. The fact that a politician can not see either of 2 possible outcomes occurring escapes me, but he was either arrogant or stupid.

So...if there is another vote...how do you ensure we are prepared for any possible outcome?

If Leave with No Deal is one of the options + it gets selected, the EU might rightly think we have just spent another year wasting their time. Donald Tusk would be digging out his yellow vest and blow torch for a bit of Hell sampling !

andrewf75

Moby wrote: »

So now we know the ERG are not going to get the backstop removed......so it looks like vassalage through some version of a soft brexit! seriously folks is this better than remaining in the EU.... It clearly isn't. We are now going to be second class ciitizens in Europe, paying for access to things that we now get for free and with no voting rights on future legislation.

its worse than being a member from a remain point of view of course, but I don't buy the idea that its the worst of all worlds.

It gets us out of the political project - surely the main thing for leavers. Whether we can do our own trade deals makes no difference to the majority of people

Lets be honest we didn't make the most of our position as a member anyway. I think a Swiss style relationship is our natural place in Europe. We want the benefits of membership, but like the idea of being separate.

phillw

ben501 wrote: »

“There will be no election in 5 years’ time to change our mind if we get this wrong."

So another vote in 4 or 6 years time is fine.

Moby wrote: »

We are now going to be second class ciitizens in Europe, paying for access to things that we now get for free and with no voting rights on future legislation.

The interesting thing about that statement is the leave campaign was built around the fear that we pay for access and all the decisions are made by unelected technocrats. So how would be second class citizens as nothing appears to have changed? Unless the fear that leave stirred up was all a based on lies.

andrewf75

phillw wrote: »

So another vote in 4 or 6 years time is fine.

pointless, as the process of leaving and realigning the economy will take much longer than 6 years.