If there is a second referendum ...

Takedap

adindas seems to have become fixated on the £39bn sum for the "divorce bill". I would suggest that this will seem like pocket change compared to the potential losses to the country resulting from leaving with no deal.


The country already has an average household debt of £15,385 (which doesn't include any mortgage debt). I can't see a lot of people that are in a position to be able to weather even a short financial storm.


We've just seen a situation in the US were people with secure Government jobs were lining up at food banks & in danger of defaulting on their rent/mortgages after the delay of a single pay cheque.


How many in this country would be in a similar or worse position?

andrewf75

Herzlos wrote: »

I also don't get why Leavers are so fixated on this money, beyond the feeling that the EU is getting one over on us.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. I can’t believe anyone thinks it’s in our interests, financially or otherwise, to not pay the money. But for the most extreme leavers they have created this idea that we were somehow trapped or enslaved by the EU like a country occupied by a foreign power so there is a desire to “stick two fingers up” in some way.

mayonnaise

andrewf75 wrote: »

But for the most extreme leavers they have created this idea that we were somehow trapped or enslaved by the EU like a country occupied by a foreign power so there is a desire to “stick two fingers up” in some way.

“we fought in the Second World War. We liberated France. We liberated Belgium.” “We beat the Germans, and what are we getting now? Trying to tell what we can do, what we can’t do. It’s absolutely ridiculous.”

The Brexiteer mindset. Watch and weep. (Or have a chuckle, like I did )

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-former-miners-clash-bbc-film-wwii/

Takedap

mayonnaise wrote: »

The Brexiteer mindset. Watch and weep. (Or have a chuckle, like I did )

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-former-miners-clash-bbc-film-wwii/

I think all Weatherspoons should have a landing strip instead of a car park. After all, they're full of middle aged Spitfire pilots.....


And the film was made in an area that had millions in EU money thrown at it after the pit closures.


https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/how-1billion-of-eu-money-has-benefited-south-yorkshire-1-7383999

cogito

Takedap wrote: »

I think all Weatherspoons should have a landing strip instead of a car park. After all, they're full of middle aged Spitfire pilots.....


And the film was made in an area that had millions in EU money thrown at it after the pit closures.


https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/how-1billion-of-eu-money-has-benefited-south-yorkshire-1-7383999

The only money that the EU has is money that was taken from taxpayers in member countries.

margaretx9

cogito wrote: »

The only money that the EU has is money that was taken from taxpayers in member countries.

As you say the UK doesn't get any funding from the EU - as a net contributor its all our money. The EU merely decides how this share of UK taxpayers's money is spent rather than the parliament/government we elect.

margaretx9

Takedap wrote: »

I think all Weatherspoons should have a landing strip instead of a car park. After all, they're full of middle aged Spitfire pilots.....


And the film was made in an area that had millions in EU money thrown at it after the pit closures.


https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/how-1billion-of-eu-money-has-benefited-south-yorkshire-1-7383999

Nice of people to sneer at former miners who did very unpleasant and unhealthy work to keep power and electricity in the country running. Certain posters on here would p their pants in five minutes if they were ever asked to do the sort of work those miners did.

Just there of course to do the jobs which the Guardian reading middle classes thought was beneath them back then - a bit like eastern Europeans picking fruit today!

Arklight

cogito wrote: »

The only money that the EU has is money that was taken from taxpayers in member countries.

The EU receives money and allocates it centrally to places where it's needed. One of the main advantages of this is that it has a (relatively) non partisan opinion of where the money goes as long as it is allocated on economic need; rather than throwing it at marginal constituencies of the national government in power to try and buy their votes.

The Labour constituencies that voted Leave, many of which have benefited massively from EU funding, are not going to get any money from the Tories. The money won't be replaced, the income and investment won't come from anywhere else. It has gone and they have themselves to blame.

Apologies if I am incorrect in my assumption that you are a Tory supporter, but I imagine you won't be crying into your copy of the Telegraph to learn that the North East has lost the EUR 1000 per head or so that they get now and the government has not the slightest intention of replacing it. Why would it? Those places will never vote Tory, and they are only going to get more anti-Conservative once the Tories have started asset stripping the NHS and taking a flame thrower to employment rights.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/mapped-where-in-the-uk-receives-most-eu-funding-and-how-does-thi/

cogito

Arklight wrote: »

The EU receives money and allocates it centrally to places where it's needed. One of the main advantages of this is that it has a (relatively) non partisan opinion of where the money goes as long as it is allocated on economic need; rather than throwing it at marginal constituencies of the national government in power to try and buy their votes.

The Labour constituencies that voted Leave, many of which have benefited massively from EU funding, are not going to get any money from the Tories. The money won't be replaced, the income and investment won't come from anywhere else. It has gone and they have themselves to blame.

Apologies if I am incorrect in my assumption that you are a Tory supporter, but I imagine you won't be crying into your copy of the Telegraph to learn that the North East has lost the EUR 1000 per head or so that they get now and the government has not the slightest intention of replacing it. Why would it? Those places will never vote Tory, and they are only going to get more anti-Conservative once the Tories have started asset stripping the NHS and taking a flame thrower to employment rights.

No apologies necessary. You might be interested in this piece from the Torygraph. It's paywalled, so I've C&P'd it.

Theresa May has been warned by Labour MPs she cannot buy them off to back her Brexit deal with the promise of extra funding for their constituencies.

Downing Street is reportedly preparing to offer Labour MPs in Leave-voting areas a cash injection to persuade them to support the Prime Minister.

But some Labour backbenchers have said the offer of cash would be “pointless” if Mrs May does not also soften her Brexit deal as they told her she must choose between them and hardline Eurosceptic Tories.

Meanwhile, Remain-backing Labour MPs said any colleagues who supported the deal after being offered more cash would be seen as “cowards”.

At least one Labour MP welcomed the prospect of more funding, with John Mann telling the Government: “Show us the money.”

However, Mr Mann said any funding offer would not be “transactional” and should instead come in the form of a “Rebuilding Britain Fund” for neglected areas - brought forward alongside a Brexit deal - which could persuade Labour MPs to back Mrs May.

Tory whips are expected to target a group of 25 Labour MPs who rebelled on Tuesday to vote against or abstain on a Jeremy Corbyn-backed plan to delay Brexit.


Securing the support of those MPs could help isolate a similar sized group of ardent Brexiteer Tories who are expected to vote against Mrs May’s deal regardless of any changes she secures.

But the potential offer of more money has been poorly received by some Labour MPs.

One who represents a Leave-voting constituency warned it would not be enough to get them on side.

“It would be pointless for the Government to try to throw money at former coalfield areas while taking the economy down a low-skilled, low-paid route that would destroy those areas,” they said.

The MP said the Government was still trying to “tilt left and tilt right at the same time” in a bid to please both Labour MPs and Tory Brexiteers but “they are going to have to make a choice”.

Anna Turley, the Labour MP for Leave-backing Redcar, accused Mrs May of “trying to bribe former coal towns to get her Brexit deal through”.

The price of support for many Labour MPs would be a change of tack to a deal built on a permanent customs union with the EU and a firm commitment to protecting workers’ rights.

Mr Mann said he and some other Labour MPs had urged Mrs May to create an investment fund.

He said: “This is not transactional, or one to one. I don’t think that would work. I am already voting for the Government. I am already voting for Brexit. They can’t buy me off. That is not what it is.


“What we have asked for is a national fund, I think we are calling it the Rebuilding Britain Fund, for major investment in those areas that have not had it - the Vote Leave areas.”

It is thought such a pledge from the Prime Minister could be enough for some Labour MPs to look favourably on Mrs May’s Brexit deal.

David Lammy, a Europhile Labour MP, said any colleagues who voted for the deal because of an offer of extra funding would be “cowards and facilitators” and “history will be brutal”.

Downing Street denied it was trying to “bribe” Labour MPs but said the Prime Minister was committed to “tackling inequalities between communities”.

The Prime Minister’s Official Spokesman said: “We are determined to lead a programme of national renewal post-Brexit by rebuilding and reconnecting communities, driving prosperity and unleashing the potential and creativity of hard working people in every part of our country.

“No community should feel that they are left behind.”

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

It would be very embarrassing, for such a small amount of money

Sometimes I wonder if people understand what they are saying. I hate to think what is considered a large sum of money. Nor how this money is actually raised from us the taxpayers. .