Bullying and Undermining

sangie595

Genuineguy03 wrote: »

If however you feel strongly about it, then there's always the option to raise a grievance. You can't be dismissed for raising one so long as your grounds for grievance were genuine reasons and about your statutory employment rights.

No, you can't be dismissed for raising a grievance. You could though, be disciplined or even dismissed if a counter grievance were brought against you for false allegations; you might raise the level of impatience about your poor performance tothe level of the employer bringing capability against you; or one of a dozen or more negative things that could happen to you. And that might include an absolutely accurate reference that says your performance is poor!

Allegedly understaffing work is not bullying. Allegedly pointing out your errors and mistakes is not bullying. And what happens to other people is not relevant.

Unless you have deep pockets - the claim you are suggesting is not one for an employment tribunal, so it's potentially costly; and the chances of a no win no fee touching this is low because there simply doesn't appear to be a case - get another job. Or get better at the one you have. Any other "option" will end in tears.

nicechap

arashtrip wrote: »

Hi,

I've been in this employment for over two years (so I am entitled to the provisions of the fair dismissal).
Since beginning of this employment I've been faced with persistent undermining of my work, constant criticism and reducing my bonus for vague reasons.
To be more specific, I've been working on projects which have been always understaffed and I've always asked the top managers to give me more staff to accomplish the project. But I always ended with useless promises whereas at the same time other teams could easily recruit more staffs to keep up with the workload.
My priorities have been redefined very but the after a while top managers found out the it was my fault that the original tasks were not completed.
Also, in annual assessment sessions they always bombard me with criticism whereas the other peers did much worse with much less criticism and so i end up receiving a fraction of my bonus.
This job has made me a lot of stress and I am now doing a therapy.
I've decided to change the job but the market is not very good at the moment.

Now, I want to know what options do I have? Are the above points can be used to sue the employer in the court (if HR does not do anything about it)? If I make a formal complaint, com[any is able to fire me and then it will be an unfair dismissal? Can I ask for compensation for the stress and humiliation I've faced in the company?

I know that many of the above should be answered by a solicitor but I want to know anyone else had the same experience?

Why do you think your colleagues could recruit easily and you couldn't? Were these internal or external vacancies? (If so I wonder did your reputation affect who applied.) Were you on the interview panel? (If so, I wonder whether you are abdicating responsibility for your decisions.) In either case, you remain responsible for managing the people and tasks in the project.

You can be fired for failing to perform the job you are employed to do - irrespective of making a complaint. What do you hope to change/ gain by complaining? If its purely to stage manage an unfair dismissal claim, I doubt you'll be successful if you cannot even manage your job.

As advised above you can raise a grievance and can't be sacked for a grievance, but any half intelligent employer will de-couple the two things.

arashtrip

Thank for comments. It is very sad to know that the law is actually backing the bully employers whereas I thought otherwise.

Some clarifications:
-I've always asked for more staff, almost nothing happened. I was on the interview panels and there were plenty of good choices but they all were rejected. The other teams got the same staff (for the very similar position) without any issue.
-Despite this lack of resource problem, they always compare my performance with the teams of much more resources and funny points is that in many cases they missed the deadlines whereas i made it for the similar task (same amount of time and energy required) but they still complaining why you did not do that other task and when I remind them of no resource, they just ignore me.
-for any simple mistake they give me a lecture on better performance and my weakness but when I find mistakes in the others jobs (which happens frequently) they just ignore it and even
see it as normal
-all these complaints usually happen in the annual reviews when they want to give bonus. Throughout the years they are usually happy with me!
-they change the priorities everyday and then blame me for doing of a task that they had insisted that should be a top priority!!!!
-as said, it is not my first job, I have a long work experience and worked in many different companies with much more pressure and tight deadlines but never seen such a hostile environment. for those who are judging for my reputation, I have an excellent relationship with the other colleagues and teams but my managers dont see it.
-it is funny that some here assume my performance is poor and I ask them politely please do not reply as your replies are useless and just want to say something to increase your post counts. Especially one said what happened to others is not relevant which is in complete contrast with the concept of harassment. I refer him/her to the link I posted above.

Based on my understanding of the rules, the above are all examples of bully and harassment. I have evidence for many of the above claims and my therapist and GP can even confirm my distress.

I will leave the company very soon but I dont want these bullies get away with their bullies. If you say that I dont have a chance, I will be sorry for a useless legal system

jobbingmusician

Part of you proving bullying would be to PROVE that you are being treated differently from your colleagues and peers. You have not done that yet - to my satisfaction anyway.

You seem to be saying that when you make a mistake your are told off. Is this in public?

When your colleagues make mistakes and you point it out (slightly iffy in itself unless you do it in the most tactful and constructive of manners) the mistake is minimised. (Since you say 'when I find mistakes in the other jobs (which happens frequently)' I suspect you may have a track record of complaining about performance by others............


In my head, and my management practice, is that if someone makes a mistake it is taken up with them in private. If Mr X points out that Mr Y has made a mistake, I would not get into a slagging off session with Mr X. Rather, I would say something like 'mistakes happen' and take the mistake up in private with Mr Y. I would expect Mr X to have confidence that staff are treated equally - he has been told off in private for *his* mistake, and Mr Y will be told off in private for *his* mistake.

However, if Mr X was immature enough to expect his manager to join him in condemnation of Mr Y, or does not realise or have confidence that the manager is managing all employees tactfully and confidentially, he might think that he is the only one being told off, of course.......

sangie595

arashtrip wrote: »

Thank for comments. It is very sad to know that the law is actually backing the bully employers whereas I thought otherwise.

Some clarifications:
-I've always asked for more staff, almost nothing happened. I was on the interview panels and there were plenty of good choices but they all were rejected. The other teams got the same staff (for the very similar position) without any issue.
-Despite this lack of resource problem, they always compare my performance with the teams of much more resources and funny points is that in many cases they missed the deadlines whereas i made it for the similar task (same amount of time and energy required) but they still complaining why you did not do that other task and when I remind them of no resource, they just ignore me.
-for any simple mistake they give me a lecture on better performance and my weakness but when I find mistakes in the others jobs (which happens frequently) they just ignore it and even
see it as normal
-all these complaints usually happen in the annual reviews when they want to give bonus. Throughout the years they are usually happy with me!
-they change the priorities everyday and then blame me for doing of a task that they had insisted that should be a top priority!!!!
-as said, it is not my first job, I have a long work experience and worked in many different companies with much more pressure and tight deadlines but never seen such a hostile environment. for those who are judging for my reputation, I have an excellent relationship with the other colleagues and teams but my managers dont see it.
-it is funny that some here assume my performance is poor and I ask them politely please do not reply as your replies are useless and just want to say something to increase your post counts. Especially one said what happened to others is not relevant which is in complete contrast with the concept of harassment. I refer him/her to the link I posted above.

Based on my understanding of the rules, the above are all examples of bully and harassment. I have evidence for many of the above claims and my therapist and GP can even confirm my distress.

I will leave the company very soon but I dont want these bullies get away with their bullies. If you say that I dont have a chance, I will be sorry for a useless legal system

Your employer is under no obligation to employ the number of staff that you want. Refusing to do so is not bullying.

Your employer should not discuss their performance of others with you - how they perform and what your employer does about it is none of your business.

You have admitted mistakes and poor performance, and blamed it on your employer - so denying it now is pointless.

You do not get to tell people whether they can post or not. If you don't like the replies, leave. You asked for opinions and you are getting them. The fact they don't agree with you or tell you what to wasn't to hear, does not make them wrong. When you hear what you want to hear, approach that carefully - there's a few here who think it's fun to light the fuse by telling you what you want to hear, then stands back and watch you lose your job.

If you had really cared about your employment, with all this going on for years, allegedly, why didn't you join a union or buy legal insurance. And now you want to rely on the dubious advice of strangers? When you get that new job, think about that - are you going to make the same mistake again?

Oh, and harassment relates only to specific adjuncts in law - none of which you have evidenced as existing. So no evidence of harassment.

Les79

arashtrip wrote: »

-it is funny that some here assume my performance is poor and I ask them politely please do not reply as your replies are useless and just want to say something to increase your post counts. Especially one said what happened to others is not relevant which is in complete contrast with the concept of harassment. I refer him/her to the link I posted above.

Well here's the rub about that....


If you SUE the company, or go to Employment Tribunal, you'll come into contact with neutral third party people who will have the same skeptical thoughts. We aren't skeptical because we don't believe you, but rather because there isn't much meat on the bones of your complaint and nobody in this world is perfect (so it is not unconceivable that you ARE performing below par). More so when you openly admit that YOU make mistakes.

-for any simple mistake they give me a lecture on better performance and my weakness but when I find mistakes in the others jobs (which happens frequently) they just ignore it and even
see it as normal

Also, does this above sentence suggest that you grass on colleagues? I'd be careful there, as it is possible that the employer see you as someone who *should* be setting an example for others by NOT MAKING MISTAKES (so glad you readily admitted to making them here), so when you make one (and you grass on others) it sort of doesn't set the right tone. "Practice what you preach" etc.




Anyways, it sounds like you have done your own research so not much more we can add here aside from either experience or opinions as to whether you have a worthwhile case to pursue; I'm about 75% in favour of you just getting your head down and seeking a new job and/or learning how to manage the managers better in your work. 25% would be making initial enquiries to the likes of ACAS and maybe CAB for some more advice. You could also potentially speak to a solicitor, though no-win-no-fee may not touch you and a paid-for one may exaggerate your chances of winning (to keep you paying them).


PS, bear in mind that the energy you put into replying to my post here could be better spent updating your CV or filling in an application form.

arashtrip

sangie595 wrote: »

Your employer is under no obligation to employ the number of staff that you want. Refusing to do so is not bullying.

Your employer should not discuss their performance of others with you how they perform and what your employer does about it is none of your business.

You have admitted mistakes and poor performance, and blamed it on your employer - so denying it now is pointless.

You do not get to tell people whether they can post or not. If you don't like the replies, leave. You asked for opinions and you are getting them. The fact they don't agree with you or tell you what to wasn't to hear, does not make them wrong. When you hear what you want to hear, approach that carefully - there's a few here who think it's fun to light the fuse by telling you what you want to hear, then stands back and watch you lose your job.

If you had really cared about your employment, with all this going on for years, allegedly, why didn't you join a union or buy legal insurance. And now you want to rely on the dubious advice of strangers? When you get that new job, think about that - are you going to make the same mistake again?

Oh, and harassment relates only to specific adjuncts in law - none of which you have evidenced as existing. So no evidence of harassment.

joining a union???? you better not reply anyone as I asked you before because you should have known not all professions have a sort of those collective unions.

Based on your ill-informed and useless reply, nothing can be classified as harassment, bullying or discrimination as employers can do as they wish. Please before posting replies, read some relevant legal website to learn the meaning of these concepts. Also, I did not admit any poor performance, dont know from where did you get it???

I asked about similar experiences of others as these forums are for that reason. I did not ask for your useless opinion and judgement. Your comments show your only job is just posting here to get more stars.

nicechap

arashtrip wrote: »

joining a union???? you better not reply anyone as I asked you before because you should have known not all professions have a sort of those collective unions.

I asked about similar experiences as these forums are for that reason. I did not ask for your useless opinion and judgement. Your comments show your only job is just posting here to get more stars.

I think I can see the root cause of your problem in this response but you don't want my useless opinion.

You probably also don't want to know that you can join a union even if your firm doesn't recognise them.

Just out of interest, what is your profession that bans union membership?

arashtrip

Les79 wrote: »

Well here's the rub about that....


If you SUE the company, or go to Employment Tribunal, you'll come into contact with neutral third party people who will have the same skeptical thoughts. We aren't skeptical because we don't believe you, but rather because there isn't much meat on the bones of your complaint and nobody in this world is perfect (so it is not unconceivable that you ARE performing below par). More so when you openly admit that YOU make mistakes.





Also, does this above sentence suggest that you grass on colleagues? I'd be careful there, as it is possible that the employer see you as someone who *should* be setting an example for others by NOT MAKING MISTAKES (so glad you readily admitted to making them here), so when you make one (and you grass on others) it sort of doesn't set the right tone. "Practice what you preach" etc.




Anyways, it sounds like you have done your own research so not much more we can add here aside from either experience or opinions as to whether you have a worthwhile case to pursue; I'm about 75% in favour of you just getting your head down and seeking a new job and/or learning how to manage the managers better in your work. 25% would be making initial enquiries to the likes of ACAS and maybe CAB for some more advice. You could also potentially speak to a solicitor, though no-win-no-fee may not touch you and a paid-for one may exaggerate your chances of winning (to keep you paying them).


PS, bear in mind that the energy you put into replying to my post here could be better spent updating your CV or filling in an application form.

I know how to update my CV.

arashtrip

nicechap wrote: »

I think I can see the root cause of your problem in this response but you don't want my useless opinion.

You probably also don't want to know that you can join a union even if your firm doesn't recognise them.

Just out of interest, what is your profession that bans union membership?

No one banned me from joining those useless unions comrade and I never want them to act in the favor of collective workers or proliferate.

your reply is showing very well that this forum is of no more help as the best thing you can think of is joining a union????