25 Brexit need-to-knows

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  • TREVORCOLMAN
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    spadosh

    Interesting comment about economics - 20% pay rise? which planet are you from?

    :rotfl:
    I am NOT a mortgage & insurance adviser - or anything to do with finance, that was put on by the new system I dont know why?!
  • TREVORCOLMAN
    TREVORCOLMAN Posts: 1,001 Forumite
    edited 15 November 2018 at 9:41AM
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    1988:

    Department of Health plans to offer nurses a 3% pay rise and end national wage increases in favour of regional variations were leaked to the Nursing Times magazine, published yesterday.

    I Guess you had your decimal point in the wrong place eh?

    :rotfl:
    I am NOT a mortgage & insurance adviser - or anything to do with finance, that was put on by the new system I dont know why?!
  • spadoosh
    spadoosh Posts: 8,732 Forumite
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    As someone who lived through that time and couldn't afford to get on the property ladder, I'd be interested to know just who was getting 20% pay rises. It certainly wasn't me or anyone I knew.

    Examples please.
    spadosh

    Interesting comment about economics - 20% pay rise? which planet are you from?

    :rotfl:
    1988:

    Department of Health plans to offer nurses a 3% pay rise and end national wage increases in favour of regional variations were leaked to the Nursing Times magazine, published yesterday.

    I Guess you had your decimal point in the wrong place eh?

    :rotfl:

    Just have a look at economic activity from the time of 15% interest rates. Were talking from about mid 70s to lates 80s when those numbers in play right.

    https://www.economicvoice.com/chart-of-the-week-historical-real-average-salary/

    Youll see a nice chart, your period of severely struggling interest rates coincides with the really steep part of the cure where youll see from about the early 1970s average wage go from about £10k to about £20k by the end of the late 80s. Theres a few years in there where 20% increases did occur but its probably not as prevalent as i made out but then i suspect interest rates wherent locked at 15% for a 20 year period either, theres other data that back this up if youre willing to look. My working life basically started at the top of that steep curve, where it goes down.

    You can try and deny it, it might not have been specific to you but the rest of the country was seeing massive growth. Hence the reason massive interest rates where allowable. Massive interest rates dont really work if people cant actually afford to pay them. You see it just becomes pointless lending people money with high interest rates if they cant afford to actually pay it back.

    I appreciate its circumstance and you might not have been one of the winners of the time but theres no hiding the fact that there was lots and lots of winners. And you where more likely to be a winner if you where paying 15% interest rates because the cause of said high interest rates was a booming economy (wage rises). SO thats a huge benefit and weve not even started talking about the other huge benefit of vastly increased house prices.

    As for the nurses, a regional nursing officer in 1974 was earning £8001 the same person in 1981 was earning nearly £22k. Over the period thats a 174% increase so it looks like we're both bad with numbers if they only ever received 3% pay rises during that time. And then youve got the working week dropping from 40 to 37.5 hours as well which gets forgotten about, i mean you forgot that didnt you? Adjusted for inflation and the figures help you out more because over the same period inflation was ~170%. So not a huge like for like pay rise but those figure use RPI which did account for mortgage interest inflation where as now we use CPI which doesnt.

    If it didnt work out for you, i can only apologise, thats just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Im certain youll find more people who where economically active in the 70's 80's vastly improved their economic outlook. I mean theres a term for those people, baby boomers. I mean the name is in the title..... boomers. It was a generation that went from pretty poor to pretty wealthy within a lifetime, again sorry if it missed you.

    You need to get on to those officially recognised bodies that suggest its was pretty rosy during your prime economic life and let them know of your real struggles.

    The problem you have is that economic data is recorded. So for example you might suggest youve paid your way with taxation, the reality suggests most havent. You might suggest things where particularly difficult (or more difficult due to high interest rates) and the reality is it wasnt.

    Im sure there where loads of less than nice things for you in your life, there normally is for people. Whinging about 15% interest rates in a time of boom in which the world has never seen before and seems unlikely to see again just seems a bit well, whiney.
  • spadoosh
    spadoosh Posts: 8,732 Forumite
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    PompeyPete wrote: »
    Single income families mainly. The Mrs stayed at home to bring up the children, unlike these days of 'entitlement' to 3rd party 'parents'.

    I can't remember 20% pay rises......but I can remember several years of struggling and going without some 'necessities', and having to drink home brew cack.

    All done without complaint.

    You cant say that when its complained about at every opportunity.

    And it was bad because you could choose to either have two people working full time or a family could manage on a single wage? Ill take it! Lets bring those rules back!
  • PompeyPete
    PompeyPete Posts: 7,126 Forumite
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    spadoosh wrote: »
    You cant say that when its complained about at every opportunity.

    And it was bad because you could choose to either have two people working full time or a family could manage on a single wage? Ill take it! Lets bring those rules back!

    Was it really that simple in the 1980s to have two people working full time with young children? For example in my case I was in the Armed Forces and absent for much of the time. My wife, with 3 young children, had to take on the full burden of both parents, so no opportunity to work.
  • PompeyPete
    PompeyPete Posts: 7,126 Forumite
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    spadoosh wrote: »
    Just have a look at economic activity from the time of 15% interest rates. Were talking from about mid 70s to lates 80s when those numbers in play right.

    https://www.economicvoice.com/chart-of-the-week-historical-real-average-salary/

    Youll see a nice chart, your period of severely struggling interest rates coincides with the really steep part of the cure where youll see from about the early 1970s average wage go from about £10k to about £20k by the end of the late 80s. Theres a few years in there where 20% increases did occur but its probably not as prevalent as i made out but then i suspect interest rates wherent locked at 15% for a 20 year period either, theres other data that back this up if youre willing to look. My working life basically started at the top of that steep curve, where it goes down.

    You can try and deny it, it might not have been specific to you but the rest of the country was seeing massive growth. Hence the reason massive interest rates where allowable. Massive interest rates dont really work if people cant actually afford to pay them. You see it just becomes pointless lending people money with high interest rates if they cant afford to actually pay it back.

    I appreciate its circumstance and you might not have been one of the winners of the time but theres no hiding the fact that there was lots and lots of winners. And you where more likely to be a winner if you where paying 15% interest rates because the cause of said high interest rates was a booming economy (wage rises). SO thats a huge benefit and weve not even started talking about the other huge benefit of vastly increased house prices.

    As for the nurses, a regional nursing officer in 1974 was earning £8001 the same person in 1981 was earning nearly £22k. Over the period thats a 174% increase so it looks like we're both bad with numbers if they only ever received 3% pay rises during that time. And then youve got the working week dropping from 40 to 37.5 hours as well which gets forgotten about, i mean you forgot that didnt you? Adjusted for inflation and the figures help you out more because over the same period inflation was ~170%. So not a huge like for like pay rise but those figure use RPI which did account for mortgage interest inflation where as now we use CPI which doesnt.

    If it didnt work out for you, i can only apologise, thats just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Im certain youll find more people who where economically active in the 70's 80's vastly improved their economic outlook. I mean theres a term for those people, baby boomers. I mean the name is in the title..... boomers. It was a generation that went from pretty poor to pretty wealthy within a lifetime, again sorry if it missed you.

    You need to get on to those officially recognised bodies that suggest its was pretty rosy during your prime economic life and let them know of your real struggles.

    The problem you have is that economic data is recorded. So for example you might suggest youve paid your way with taxation, the reality suggests most havent. You might suggest things where particularly difficult (or more difficult due to high interest rates) and the reality is it wasnt.

    Im sure there where loads of less than nice things for you in your life, there normally is for people. Whinging about 15% interest rates in a time of boom in which the world has never seen before and seems unlikely to see again just seems a bit well, whiney.

    Statistics and Economic Data are very 'cold' facts. They might not have been hard times for all, but for many they were.

    In order to get a mortgage you had to save with the same lender for a minimum of two years. You needed to have a minimum % deposit. That meant drawing in the purse strings for at lest two years before applying for a mortgage loan.

    You needed to prove that your employment was secure. A mortgage loan was calculated on the main 'bread' earner's salary only.

    No doubt other loops to jump through. Not that easy.
  • PompeyPete
    PompeyPete Posts: 7,126 Forumite
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    spadoosh wrote: »
    You cant say that when its complained about at every opportunity.

    And it was bad because you could choose to either have two people working full time or a family could manage on a single wage? Ill take it! Lets bring those rules back!

    I reckon that at the time very very few complained, they just accepted the situation, and got on with it.

    It's only these days, when certain folk, who weren't even around then, tell those that were, how easy it was for the latter.;)
  • spadoosh
    spadoosh Posts: 8,732 Forumite
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    edited 15 November 2018 at 1:58PM
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    PompeyPete wrote: »
    Was it really that simple in the 1980s to have two people working full time with young children? For example in my case I was in the Armed Forces and absent for much of the time. My wife, with 3 young children, had to take on the full burden of both parents, so no opportunity to work.

    Yeh my mum and dad where exactly the same (just two kids though). Still pretty cushty being able to live off a single armed forces wage and feed a family. You couldnt do it now could you? O and im assuming your pension is as sweet as my dads too? My dad doesnt think hes had a hard life, theres a possibility you rubbed shoulders on his falklands tour. I wish i could get a pension like his.

    I suspect it was only as hard as it is now if im honest. I pulled in my purse strings before buying, needed a 10% deposit, the deposit included money saved from my paper round. Housing just isnt really considered an investment anymore as shown by pretty stagnant price increases. We did have to include two full time wages on our mortgage application otherwise it simply woulnt be affordable.

    As mentioned im sure life was hard and will be hard. For me its pretty easy if im honest. Homeowner at 24, should be mortgage free a little after 40, ive been made redundant a few times and my wage growth has been pretty much static since i started working full time but ive made sure i can make do on minim wage earnings. Its just people of the 70's and 80's always like to highlight all the [STRIKE]bad[/STRIKE]in proportion things like high interest rates. They forget all the [STRIKE]good[/STRIKE] in proportion things like booming economy, house price increases and much higher earnings per hour individually.

    Ill call out anyone who makes out there life was particular difficult due to one specific factor and neglecting all others whilst probably sat there being retired early, sat on wealth that is above and beyond anything theyve ever actually contributed. IM sure it will be similar for me, the difference is, i dont make out the next generation have it so much easier. Well, largely because i suspect they wont.
  • bradders1983
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    Sorry but what does all this have to do with "Overseas Holiday and Travel Planning"?
  • PompeyPete
    PompeyPete Posts: 7,126 Forumite
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    Sorry but what does all this have to do with "Overseas Holiday and Travel Planning"?

    Ask the OP, who should never have posted in this Sub-Forum.
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