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BW Legal - HELP!
Groutledge90
Posts: 30 Forumite
Hi,
I have ready the appropriate feeds previously and took a template to send them in response to the ‘Final Notice Letter’ however this was my first letter?!
They responded via email and continued to send me a further letter via post with none of what I had requested.
My BIG issue is that I leave the UK in 3 weeks time to go traveling and will not be here if I get a letter to go to court. If I ignore this, it will affect my credit rating and be outstanding for when I get back to the UK right?!
PLEASE HELP!!!
FYI - below are the emails sent and received;
Dear Sirs,
I write in response to your Final Notice Letter dated 30 July 2018.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of any evidence to support your claim.
I also note from your letter that your reference “the First Letter” dated 30th June 2018, however I have not received any such letter from you. Please provide a copy of this letter, ideally as an attachment by post.
As your client is surely aware, as of 1st October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims, and since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.
Although your letter threatens myself with court action, it also clearly lacks any specificity and breaches the requirements of both the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6c) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this correspondence as a formal request for all documents and information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.
As a firm of solicitors, I am sure you are familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1st October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (your client, a serial litigator of small claims will, I am sure, likewise be aware of them). As yourselves and your client should know, both the Practice Direction and Protocol apply to all potential litigants, irrespective of size or type of claim. It has the express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their positions in relation to it, in order to allow parties to assess their positions and negotiate a settlement without incurring the costs of court proceedings and taking up the valuable time of the court. I find it unbelievable that a firm of solicitors are sending a consumer such a vague and un-evidenced “Final Notice” in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol which no one, including your client, is immune from the requirements of.
I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
1. An explanation of the course of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form
If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.
Yours faithfully
Good Afternoon
Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted on file.
1. Our Client's cause of action is that you breached the terms and conditions of the contract which you entered into by parking your vehicle in the car park, by failing to make the required payment or overstaying paid for time.
2. Our Client is pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle.
3. Our Client does intend to rely on Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
4. The details of the claim are that your vehicle parked without making the required payment or overstaying paid for time.
5. The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which you have been issued with is for a breach of contract. The only right which you have to enter the land in question are on the terms and conditions which apply. It is unnecessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with Our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance.
6. This is not a claim for trespass.
7. Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.
8. Our Client is under no obligation to supply this.
9. As established members of the International Parking Community, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks ('Code of Practice'). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.
10. £100.00 remains unpaid for the Parking Charge Notice. Additionally, you are also liable for our £60.00 instructions fee as your file has been passed to us.
11. This will be issued in due course.
Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact our office on 0113 323 4479
Kind Regards,
bwlegal
I have ready the appropriate feeds previously and took a template to send them in response to the ‘Final Notice Letter’ however this was my first letter?!
They responded via email and continued to send me a further letter via post with none of what I had requested.
My BIG issue is that I leave the UK in 3 weeks time to go traveling and will not be here if I get a letter to go to court. If I ignore this, it will affect my credit rating and be outstanding for when I get back to the UK right?!
PLEASE HELP!!!
FYI - below are the emails sent and received;
Dear Sirs,
I write in response to your Final Notice Letter dated 30 July 2018.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of any evidence to support your claim.
I also note from your letter that your reference “the First Letter” dated 30th June 2018, however I have not received any such letter from you. Please provide a copy of this letter, ideally as an attachment by post.
As your client is surely aware, as of 1st October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims, and since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.
Although your letter threatens myself with court action, it also clearly lacks any specificity and breaches the requirements of both the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6c) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this correspondence as a formal request for all documents and information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.
As a firm of solicitors, I am sure you are familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1st October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (your client, a serial litigator of small claims will, I am sure, likewise be aware of them). As yourselves and your client should know, both the Practice Direction and Protocol apply to all potential litigants, irrespective of size or type of claim. It has the express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their positions in relation to it, in order to allow parties to assess their positions and negotiate a settlement without incurring the costs of court proceedings and taking up the valuable time of the court. I find it unbelievable that a firm of solicitors are sending a consumer such a vague and un-evidenced “Final Notice” in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol which no one, including your client, is immune from the requirements of.
I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
1. An explanation of the course of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form
If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.
Yours faithfully
Good Afternoon
Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted on file.
1. Our Client's cause of action is that you breached the terms and conditions of the contract which you entered into by parking your vehicle in the car park, by failing to make the required payment or overstaying paid for time.
2. Our Client is pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle.
3. Our Client does intend to rely on Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
4. The details of the claim are that your vehicle parked without making the required payment or overstaying paid for time.
5. The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which you have been issued with is for a breach of contract. The only right which you have to enter the land in question are on the terms and conditions which apply. It is unnecessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with Our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance.
6. This is not a claim for trespass.
7. Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.
8. Our Client is under no obligation to supply this.
9. As established members of the International Parking Community, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks ('Code of Practice'). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.
10. £100.00 remains unpaid for the Parking Charge Notice. Additionally, you are also liable for our £60.00 instructions fee as your file has been passed to us.
11. This will be issued in due course.
Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact our office on 0113 323 4479
Kind Regards,
bwlegal
0
Comments
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If a claim is issued against the keeper at the keeper's registered address and not responded to then expect a default CCJ to be issued and registered against the keeper1
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Send a formal notice by email (and keep proof) to BW Legal AND online to the Data Protection Officer of the parking firm (email contact is usually given for this, on the PPC's Privacy page on their website).My BIG issue is that I leave the UK in 3 weeks time to go traveling and will not be here if I get a letter to go to court. If I ignore this, it will affect my credit rating and be outstanding for when I get back to the UK right?!
Along these lines, telling them you are now domiciled abroad at xxxx address and they must erase your old address data:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75041495#Comment_75041495
If you cannot give an address abroad as you are travelling between Countries, do you have a relative in Scotland who would be happy for letters to go to them and they could email you copies on your travels (Scotland being safe as it's also out of jurisdiction)?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
As coupon-mad says above and make sure you get confirmation as this particular firm cannot be trusted
They up to their rubbish again ....
10. £100.00 remains unpaid for the Parking Charge Notice. Additionally, you are also liable for our £60.00 instructions fee as your file has been passed to us.
INSTRUCTIONS FEE ? they also refer to that £60 as an admin charge, contractual charge, their legal fees, contribuatal fee.
They simply don't know themselves what it is, but they do, they are trying to add on a fake charge from a debt collector ???
In other words BWLegal are attempting to extort money from you0 -
Why not write to their regulatory body the SRA and ask if this charge is kosher.
http://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.pageYou never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Why not write to their regulatory body the SRA and ask if this charge is kosher.
http://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page
I think with the SRA anything is kosher because it's an "old boys club" and they are scared to admit of the great scam going on under their noses
And in the Mail today, yet another "old boys club"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6382565/Judge-racked-12-points-driving-licence-spared-ban-magistrates.html0 -
Spot on! :eek:I think with the SRA anything is kosher because it's an "old boys club" and they are scared to admit of the great scam going on under their noses
And in the Mail today, yet another "old boys club"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6382565/Judge-racked-12-points-driving-licence-spared-ban-magistrates.htmlPPCs say its carpark management, BPA say its raising standards..... we all know its just about raking in the revenue. :eek:0 -
Thanks everyone!! I can give my mums address in South Africa - although I don’t actually live there myself, this doesn’t matter does it?
I’m totally useless at any of this.. I only know this kind of thing is usually a well written scam of some sorts.
You’ve all been lots of help.0 -
One question however is how do I know this will work? I intend to come back to the UK in 6-12 months and do not want to come back to a ruined credit score and CCJ in my name.
Will this mean they will stop the letter and remove the charge?!0 -
See #2
There's a possibility you do end up with a default ccj
If you do then you have the set aside route to get it removed from the records0 -
Hey everyone,
Me again! So i went traveling i told them i will be living abroad now... fast forward nearly 2 years, we are back in the UK and now and I have received a letter from BW Legal out of the blue!
This time the letter has NO info NO details of the dates, times, registration of vehicle, I have no idea when it is from but the only thing i can think of is that its from the above original case. This is because the letter is in my name and not my partners (i had a car back then but haven't had a car since i went traveling in Dec '18) and it says 'Napier Parking Limited' which was the original place i got the fine.
I assumed everything had been squashed as i had no further letters, no emails, no responses and checked my credit continuously to check i didn't have a CCJ which i didn't.
The letter doesn't say anything about being a LBC or mention court. I still have an address is South Africa (no documents in my name get delivered to this address though!) The letter mentions 20% discount if i pay before 16th May which makes it £128 - should i just pay this and get rid of it?? or is this something i can actually beat?
They have mentioned Corona Virus and difficulties paying but the fine is the exact same amount as before - £160.00.
My guess is that business is low for them right now and they are pulling up old files to try and bring in business.
Please can someone help.
Thank you
0
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