CEL CCC - Directions Questionnaire (Title changed for attention)

KeithP

When you 'revisited the Newbies thread' did you not see all the examples of Witness Statements linked from post #2 on that thread?

Surely you also saw the list of things you should consider when gathering evidence.

HayleyD83

I saw a list of the things I need to include but not any examples (which is what I need) Perhaps I was a bit hasty and need to look a bit harder apologies!

Coupon-mad

Several WS examples are linked there, and pearls of wisdom, hopefully!

HayleyD83

Thank you! Found them on looking again properly the second time around! I'll get cracking!

HayleyD83

Hi guys,
please see below my first attempt at a witness statement. Need to firm up some details such as the exact wording of the signs (and get out and take some pics of them) Also I am not sure that the sizing of the signs contravenes the BPA guidelines, but the wording (especially of the T&C's) almost certainly does. Tiny grey font that you can't read unless right up close to it!

As always super grateful for any feed back

In the County Court at xxxx
Claim no: xxx
Between Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)
And
xxxxx (Defendant)

---

Witness Statement

---

1. I am xxxx of xxxxxxx the defendant in this matter. I will say as follows
2. On xxxxx I arrived at the Car Park at 324 Hook Road Chessington behind Sainsbury's Local accompanied by my Grandfather who was aged 87 at the time in question and who suffers from Alzheimers disease and vascular dementia. We then proceeded to visit Sainsbury's to purchase some shopping for my Grandfather.
3. Upon Arrival at the car park as I drove in I noted a sign to my right hand side stating ‘Free Parking 45 Minutes’ along with some smaller text in light font which is impossible to read from inside the vehicle. (please see attached XXX Photographs of signage at the entrance to the car park taken from inside the vehicle)
4. Upon Parking I also noted signs with the same wording ‘Free parking for 45 minutes’ again with barely legible text beneath it. Please see attached xxxx Photographs of signage within the car park taken from inside the vehicle whilst parked in an assigned bay.
5. In accordance with the BPA Code of Practice 18.3 (of which the Claimant is a member) Signs must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language so they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450 x 450mm
6. On the basis of this I deny that the signage provided in this car park meets the criteria to form a legally binding contract. Further to this, is worded in a way which is misleading.
7. Under the Equality Act 2010, specifically Chapter 20.3, service providers are required to make reasonable adjustments for persons with disabilities. This includes providing extra time for a disabled person to use the service. Failure to do so not only constitutes discrimination, in accordance with The EHRC Equality Act Code of Practice for Service Providers, (specifically paragraphs 14.58, 5.4 and 5.34) but also renders any contract unenforceable under the prevailing legislation, namely paragraph 142 of the Equality Act. Because this car park is open to the public, the landowner, or managing agent, on-site outlets and the private parking company are all 'service-providers' who have a legal duty to adhere to the 'Equality Act Code of Practice on Services, Public Functions and Associations' which became law on 6th April 2011.

8. I would argue that 45 minutes does not sufficiently account for making reasonable adjustments which would allow an 87 year man with advanced vascular dementia, to use the services provided (in this case shopping at Sainsbury’s.)

I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

HayleyD83

Hi guys,
please see below my first attempt at a witness statement. Need to firm up some details such as the exact wording of the signs (and get out and take some pics of them) Also I am not sure that the sizing of the signs contravenes the BPA guidelines, but the wording (especially of the T&C's) almost certainly does. Tiny grey font that you can't read unless right up close to it!

As always super grateful for any feed back

In the County Court at xxxx
Claim no: xxx
Between Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)
And
xxxxx (Defendant)

---

Witness Statement

---

1. I am xxxx of xxxxxxx the defendant in this matter. I will say as follows
2. On xxxxx I arrived at the Car Park at 324 Hook Road Chessington behind Sainsbury's Local accompanied by my Grandfather who was aged 87 at the time in question and who suffers from Alzheimers disease and vascular dementia. We then proceeded to visit Sainsbury's to purchase some shopping for my Grandfather.
3. Upon Arrival at the car park as I drove in I noted a sign to my right hand side stating ‘Free Parking 45 Minutes’ along with some smaller text in light font which is impossible to read from inside the vehicle. (please see attached XXX Photographs of signage at the entrance to the car park taken from inside the vehicle)
4. Upon Parking I also noted signs with the same wording ‘Free parking for 45 minutes’ again with barely legible text beneath it. Please see attached xxxx Photographs of signage within the car park taken from inside the vehicle whilst parked in an assigned bay.
5. In accordance with the BPA Code of Practice 18.3 (of which the Claimant is a member) Signs must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language so they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450 x 450mm
6. On the basis of this I deny that the signage provided in this car park meets the criteria to form a legally binding contract. Further to this, is worded in a way which is misleading.
7. Under the Equality Act 2010, specifically Chapter 20.3, service providers are required to make reasonable adjustments for persons with disabilities. This includes providing extra time for a disabled person to use the service. Failure to do so not only constitutes discrimination, in accordance with The EHRC Equality Act Code of Practice for Service Providers, (specifically paragraphs 14.58, 5.4 and 5.34) but also renders any contract unenforceable under the prevailing legislation, namely paragraph 142 of the Equality Act. Because this car park is open to the public, the landowner, or managing agent, on-site outlets and the private parking company are all 'service-providers' who have a legal duty to adhere to the 'Equality Act Code of Practice on Services, Public Functions and Associations' which became law on 6th April 2011.

8. I would argue that 45 minutes does not sufficiently account for making reasonable adjustments which would allow an 87 year man with advanced vascular dementia, to use the services provided (in this case shopping at Sainsbury’s.)

I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

[Deleted User]

Pause for a moment. Stop thinking what you need to tell a judge and ask yourself if that statement adequately says what you said and did.

1. Was it your first visit?
2. Have the signs changed?
3. Why did you overstay? And for how long?
4. Just how long does it take to pop your relative in the car?
5. Can he be left unattended whilst you head off on foot to read any signs even if you had seen them?

Naturally feel free to put in your technical arguments too if you wish (lord knows the PPC will) but I'd be very clear how events came about as you know the PPC will just argue that your circumstances are no different to that of Beavis.

HayleyD83

Thank you for your input! This is a car park I have used for years, to be honest I didn’t pay much attention to the signs as this car park has historically always been free. I saw the signs which said 45 mins free parking, didn’t think any more of it. We over stayed by about 18 minutes as I took him shopping and then to get his hair cut. The car park is not owned by sainsburies and as far as I know services all the shops in that area...regarding the signs I am sure that the guidelines state that you should be able to read these easily from inside the car so that you can make an informed decision as to whether to park there.

In your opinion is it worth mentioning that I have used the car park before?

Coupon-mad

Add something about this, below (and can you PROVE they rejected your appeal that told them about Grandad, or didn't it?), as it is important to show that CEL 'knew or should have known' before proceedings began, that a passenger had 'protected characteristics' under the EA and needed a reasonable adjustment of time:

However the letters received initially were extremely poor, they did not even state who they were from, no details for appeal procedures just a letter showing two images of my car (not even clearly in a car park so frankly could have been anywhere).

an appeal was lodged but rejected on the grounds of being outside of the appeal period

Put this in as evidence:

The EHRC Equality Act Code of Practice for Service Providers paragraphs 14.58, 5.4 and 5.34

and

paragraph 142 of the Equality Act.

Take the full copy of the EHRC Statutory CoP with you on the day, and print out the explanatory notes as well that make it clear that the CoP is NOT just 'guidance' (the Judge might otherwise assume it is...) but is part of the law in itself, and a breach makes a service provider liable for a fine and/or imprisonment!

Put in proof of your grandfather's vascular dementia (does he have a doctor's or hospital's letter or even some appointment letters that show you are telling the truth about is condition, which will certainly mean more time is needed)?

Put in evidence these articles as well, to show the issue with breach of the EA has been known for years and has even been tested against Councils, and applies just as much to private firm Service Providers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8488737.stm

https://www.wake-smith.co.uk/news/council-car-park-case-settled-a-victory-for-blue-badge-holders/

A person with protected characteristics doesn't have to be a BB holder to qualify for reasonable adjustments, of course, but it would be best if you can prove in evidence that CEL were alerted to his condition in your first appeal they turned down as 'late'.

Add in the part of the BPA CoP (NOT THE CURRENT VERSION - FIND THE PREVIOUS ONE THAT APPLIED IN 2017) that talks about putting in extra signs in a car park when new restrictions and charges apply. Put that in as evidence and say that whilst the '45 minutes' was readable, the parking charge risk itself was not, and was never accepted or known on the day and would never have been agreed.

And nor did the signs tell you that ANPR was being used - which breaches mandatory requirements in the relevant BPA CoP - and that in fact, the '45 mins' wasn't parking time at all and would include the significant time you took for Grandad to struggle to re-board the car safely on return, and the time taken to drive in and out, and find a space, none of which is parking time.

Say that CEL have never evidenced how long the car was actually 'parked' and you believe it was no more than 45 minutes (excluding time taken to help Grandad to safely board and get strapped in) and that their ANPR cameras were skewed with conflicting, unsynchronised clocks connected to the separate 'in' and 'out' cameras and you put the Claimant to strict proof of this issue, at the hearing.

Add near the end, add that, whilst the claim is now an eye-watering £331.38 this is clearly an abuse of process and attempt at double recovery. the truth is, this Claimant expends no costs on debt collection, and the Beavis case already held that a parking charge of £85 more than comfortably covers the very minimal costs of operating an automated parking regime (we know to be more like £15) and thus the parking charge is already almost all profit. There cannot be loss/damages as well, and in Beavis, only the £85 was deemed recoverable; you MUST object strongly to the figures 'made up out if thin air'.

HayleyD83

Wow thank you so much for the in depth response!! This really will help so much!

I do have proof that the rejected my initial appeal which they have sent to me when I made an SAR. My mum has power of attorney over my Grandads medical treatment so supplying a doctors letter will be no problem at all.