Kleeneze

Fred1_2

petestan wrote: »

He does one drop and packs in, why join in the 1st place if your going to give it up after one drop.
Use the cat's you have and drop them again to different houses and get more orders so that you can put an order in to kleeneze over £100 so those people who TRUSTED you enough that they would get their goods will at least get their goods, it's newbie's like you that give decent distributor's a bad name and make it extremely hard for other new distributors who have more staying power.
By the way if you go back more than once you will get most of those "lost" catalogues back, but that would be to much like hard work wouldn't it.

Just the sort of response that I've unforunately come to expect from some (not all, by any means) people involved in Kleeneze.

Unfortunately, I signed up in ignorance and naivety. In the short time i have had the misfortune to be involved with this scam, i have heard about so many people losing thousands of pounds trying to make this unsustainable business model work. It is a product supported pyramid scheme (not to be confused with an illegal pyramid scheme that involves no product).

The simple truth with this sort of set up is that the few make money BECAUSE the vast majority lose money. NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY WORK. Effort has nothing to do with success. It's purely down to your position in the pyramid. I'm far from afraid of hard work, but I'm not a mug either.

I see my short involvement with this set up as close shave and a really good lesson learned. I'll leave others to make up their own minds, but I would advise anyone I cared about not to touch thes product related pyramid schemes with a bargepole.

I know good advice is fit for no man, but I'd really implore you to look carefully at your NET income from Kleeneze. Not the gross. Really add up ALL the costs involved including any extra loans you've had to take out either to fund the "business" itself or to gain the trappings of an expensive lifestyle to make you a more credible example to the people you wish to sign up. Then suggest to all your downlines that they do the same. If I'm wrong, you will all be very very happy with the results.

Please read http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=what_is_wrong_with_multi_level_marketing.php. It explains the situation far more eloquently than I can.

Maz

Read the article in the link provided, (noted that it was circa2004) and I agree with some of the points raised. To be honest, the company I'm with now don't employ any of the tactics highlighted here and all the people I've met within it are level-headed, realistic and have a professional and business-like approach. Nobody evangalises or whips audiences up into a frenzy!

Please don't let your vision be coloured by your one brush with NM, there are some good, solid companies out there that don't need to rely on these procedures, don't rip off either the distributor or consumer and give value products and services.

petestan

Fred1 wrote: »

Just the sort of response that I've unforunately come to expect from some (not all, by any means) people involved in Kleeneze.

Unfortunately, I signed up in ignorance and naivety. In the short time i have had the misfortune to be involved with this scam, i have heard about so many people losing thousands of pounds trying to make this unsustainable business model work. It is a product supported pyramid scheme (not to be confused with an illegal pyramid scheme that involves no product).

The simple truth with this sort of set up is that the few make money BECAUSE the vast majority lose money. NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY WORK. Effort has nothing to do with success. It's purely down to your position in the pyramid. I'm far from afraid of hard work, but I'm not a mug either.

I see my short involvement with this set up as close shave and a really good lesson learned. I'll leave others to make up their own minds, but I would advise anyone I cared about not to touch thes product related pyramid schemes with a bargepole.

I know good advice is fit for no man, but I'd really implore you to look carefully at your NET income from Kleeneze. Not the gross. Really add up ALL the costs involved including any extra loans you've had to take out either to fund the "business" itself or to gain the trappings of an expensive lifestyle to make you a more credible example to the people you wish to sign up. Then suggest to all your downlines that they do the same. If I'm wrong, you will all be very very happy with the results.

Please read http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=what_is_wrong_with_multi_level_marketing.php. It explains the situation far more eloquently than I can.

I have taken out no loans to pay for my kleeneze business I actually do it full time now and earn gross around £2000 every 4 weeks thanks. Yes I have to pay out for things but with me having a well "tweaked" customer base I hardly lose any cat's now so it's just mainly any new cat's that I have to pay for, but they only come out roughly every 3 to 6 months so that isn't a big cost and also business cards every so often for the sponsoring side as I do not bother with adpool as personally I think I am wasting my money although that is everyone's personal choice. All these costs are allowable against any tax you have to pay as a business expense so they come straight off any tax you have pay anyway.
How the hell can you comment on something you tried once and packed in.
I started part time and gradually built my customers up and have around 1000 now usually doing personal retail of around £3000 and I only have a small team of 4 who do as much or as little as they are happy to do, I don't force anybody to do anything.
I have heard of no one who has spent thousands of pounds to fund their business and I have been involved with kleeneze for 6 years now yet you have heard of loads of people after being involved for 2 weeks, Yeh right.
I would say don't spend that sort of money if anyone ever asked me anyway as it has to be self funding so you sort out the retail first and that then pays for any advertising you decide to do.
If it is purely down to your place in the pyramid how come people who joined only 3 or 4 years ago are now amongst the top earners in kleeneze and are earning more than people who joined 10+ years ago, I am not a "superstar" and at the moment am quite happy with what I am earning from the business, but it's all down to the effort you put in and at the moment I am not prepared to put that effort in. Yet you are suddenly an expert on Kleeneze after doing it for 1 week and doing one drop of your cat's.
There are plenty of websites out there that are skeptical of kleeneze and plenty that say it works also all I can say is I was involved with a number of network marketing companies before I joined kleeneze and in none of them did I make any money I was always putting money in, kleeneze is the only one I have been able to make money with, Pete.
PS By the way if there was anything in the slightest dodgy about it why would the OFT allow kleeneze to use their "approved code" logo they would be trying to close us down as they are Amway UK at the moment.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/approved-codes/

Fred1_2

petestan wrote: »

I am not a "superstar" and at the moment am quite happy with what I am earning from the business,

I'm glad you're happy. I'm very happy to be out of it.

but it's all down to the effort you put in

I respectfully disagree. I do not doubt that effort has a bearing, but I doubt that it's a significant one. Pyramid schemes are inherently unsustainable.

Yet you are suddenly an expert on Kleeneze after doing it for 1 week

I am not am an expert, by any means. Unfortunately, the 14 day limit for getting my money back does not give me a reasonable time to try it out without risking my initial investment. That is why I set myelf a clear goal - £100 of orders inthe first week (not the £250, I was told to expect - I'm not that gullible), to make it worth trying a second week. As I didn't hit £50 it's not rocket science to see that the scheme does not work for ME, in THIS AREA at THIS TIME.

My belief that the scheme CANNOT work is, I readily accept, not based on direct experince - but neither are most of my beliefs about things that might be damaging to my well being.

PS By the way if there was anything in the slightest dodgy about it why would the OFT allow kleeneze to use their "approved code" logo they would be trying to close us down as they are Amway UK at the moment.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/approved-codes/

The OFT endorsement was what encouraged me to give Kleeneze a go. I am now more cautious about what criteria they use to award these logos. I suspect it's based on the end customers' experiences not the distributors, but I could be wrong.

If the money making guides on this website ever recommend Kleeneze then I will happily say I was probably wrong about Kleeneze in general. I am convinced that I am right that Kleeneze is not right for me. your strident posts only confirm that.

petestan

Fred1 wrote: »

I'm glad you're happy. I'm very happy to be out of it.



I respectfully disagree. I do not doubt that effort has a bearing, but I doubt that it's a significant one. Pyramid schemes are inherently unsustainable.



I am not am an expert, by any means. Unfortunately, the 14 day limit for getting my money back does not give me a reasonable time to try it out without risking my initial investment. That is why I set myelf a clear goal - £100 of orders inthe first week (not the £250, I was told to expect - I'm not that gullible), to make it worth trying a second week. As I didn't hit £50 it's not rocket science to see that the scheme does not work for ME, in THIS AREA at THIS TIME.

My belief that the scheme CANNOT work is, I readily accept, not based on direct experince - but neither are most of my beliefs about things that might be damaging to my well being.



The OFT endorsement was what encouraged me to give Kleeneze a go. I am now more cautious about what criteria they use to award these logos. I suspect it's based on the end customers' experiences not the distributors, but I could be wrong.

If the money making guides on this website ever recommend Kleeneze then I will happily say I was probably wrong about Kleeneze in general. I am convinced that I am right that Kleeneze is not right for me. your strident posts only confirm that.

No problem we will just agree to disagree, Pete.

NigeWick

Fred1 wrote: »

Pyramid schemes are inherently unsustainable

As well as being unlawful.

Multi Level marketing should be based on sales of product, not getting people signed up as distributors. As a bystander, it seems to me that Kleeneze as a company sells products and is therefore law abiding. Some people here have made a go of it and others have not. To those who have not, I have to ask "Did you do your due dilligence before joining?" I joined Herbalife and lost money because of this very reason. My fault, but at least I lost 30lbs weight on their products. However, their system was not for me. I tried Ecoflow, same result. I tried Telecom Plus and am in pocket for my outlays of advertising and effort. But, the compensation plan and policies & procedures are not right for me. I have now found a company that has the best fit for me. Individual systems of earning will not suit everybody, but anybody should be able to find a company that suits them if they really want to.

Nigel.

Maz

petestan wrote: »

I have taken out no loans to pay for my kleeneze business I actually do it full time now and earn gross around £2000 every 4 weeks thanks. Yes I have to pay out for things but with me having a well "tweaked" customer base I hardly lose any cat's now so it's just mainly any new cat's that I have to pay for, but they only come out roughly every 3 to 6 months so that isn't a big cost and also business cards every so often for the sponsoring side as I do not bother with adpool as personally I think I am wasting my money although that is everyone's personal choice. All these costs are allowable against any tax you have to pay as a business expense so they come straight off any tax you have pay anyway.
How the hell can you comment on something you tried once and packed in.
I started part time and gradually built my customers up and have around 1000 now usually doing personal retail of around £3000 and I only have a small team of 4 who do as much or as little as they are happy to do, I don't force anybody to do anything.
I have heard of no one who has spent thousands of pounds to fund their business and I have been involved with kleeneze for 6 years now yet you have heard of loads of people after being involved for 2 weeks, Yeh right.
I would say don't spend that sort of money if anyone ever asked me anyway as it has to be self funding so you sort out the retail first and that then pays for any advertising you decide to do.
If it is purely down to your place in the pyramid how come people who joined only 3 or 4 years ago are now amongst the top earners in kleeneze and are earning more than people who joined 10+ years ago, I am not a "superstar" and at the moment am quite happy with what I am earning from the business, but it's all down to the effort you put in and at the moment I am not prepared to put that effort in. Yet you are suddenly an expert on Kleeneze after doing it for 1 week and doing one drop of your cat's.
There are plenty of websites out there that are skeptical of kleeneze and plenty that say it works also all I can say is I was involved with a number of network marketing companies before I joined kleeneze and in none of them did I make any money I was always putting money in, kleeneze is the only one I have been able to make money with, Pete.
PS By the way if there was anything in the slightest dodgy about it why would the OFT allow kleeneze to use their "approved code" logo they would be trying to close us down as they are Amway UK at the moment.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/approved-codes/

Surely all that Fred1 has done is to cancel within the time frame stipulated, as laid out by Kleeneze?

petestan

Maz wrote: »

Surely all that Fred1 has done is to cancel within the time frame stipulated, as laid out by Kleeneze?

Yes he has, all I am saying is that to do one drop of catalogues and then pack in seems a waste of time and why bother joining in the first place if you are not going to give it a good try but that is fred1's choice, Pete.

Fred1_2

NigeWick wrote: »

As well as being unlawful.

Product related pyramids, such as Kleenze are lawful. Only those pyramids which solely rely on people's signing up fees, such as Women Empowering Women , are illegal.

Multi Level marketing should be based on sales of product, not getting people signed up as distributors.

They are not solely based on sales of product. Part of people's income comes from getting others to sign up and earning bonuses from their sales. In some cases, that is an extremely large part and the product is only there to make them legal. I'm not saying that's true of Kleeneze.

As a bystander, it seems to me that Kleeneze as a company sells products and is therefore law abiding.

Yes, Kleeneze is perfectly law-abiding and, I am sure, also abides by all the relevant codes of practice. That does not make it sustainable.

Some people here have made a go of it and others have not.

I wonder what the proportions are.

To those who have not, I have to ask "Did you do your due dilligence before joining?"

In my case, I will happily hold my hand up and say that I didn't. My mistake and I am not seeking to blame anyone else for it. I should not have joined Kleeneze or any product-related (ie legal) pyramid scheme, because I have no faith in them.

Given the chance, I wish I could apologise to those people whose letterboxes I should the catalogues through. I get immensely irrated by junk mail, so it was extremely hypocritical of me to deliver the stuff.

Errare humanem est.

Fred

NigeWick

Fred1 wrote: »

They are not solely based on sales of product. Part of people's income comes from getting others to sign up and earning bonuses from their sales.

But, with true MLM, the payment comes via the product being sold by the new recruits, NOT, from their joining up? One can earn money by selling goods or services. Yes, bonuses come from what one's downline sells but money can be made without one.

Did your upline get money for signing you up, or, a percentage of the product you sold? In most businesses, managers will get a bonus if their staff sell more. Philip Green was able to pay himself/wife £1 Billion(ish) a year or two back on the back of his sales staff's efforts.

Nigel.