Housing Assoc. want to install smart meter 3ft from sons bed.

Raxiel

Hengus wrote: »

All that said, we are all entitled to an opinion. However, in my view, it is only a question of time before smart meters reach a critical mass and we see Time of Use tariffs as the norm. There will undoubtedly still be legacy tariffs but my guess is that these will reflect the additional costs associated with supporting these types of meter. They will become the Economy 10 meters of the future where switching suppliers becomes increasingly difficult.

I agree. A big problem with smart meters is that people object to the idea it will save them a lot of money now as an obvious lie. They won't save any meaningful amount of money now, a smart grid will however save us (as in society at large, not necessarily individuals) from (or at least reduce the impact of) big hikes to the cost of energy in the future, as we try to balance growing demand against a reduction of hydrocarbon use.

meherenow

Raxiel wrote: »

OP, I understand your concerns, but I don't believe you have anything to worry about.


(To be fair to Houbara, you mentioned tin foil first, and he's not wrong about stopsmartmeters.org)


The meter uses the SMS protocol to communicate yes, but this is a very low level of output and, even if there are regular pings it is certainly not constant (also, he won't be in the bed all day every day presumably). Working in IT I'm sure you know that EM absorption drops off with the square of the distance, reducing that tiny amount even further. There's absolutely no evidence it would be harmful. Or at least, no more harmful than the background radiation that bathes everything under the sun.



One other thing, you say that you're comparing the very low risk of having it against the NO risk of not having it. But is that really the case? You say you'd be happy to go up and read it yourself instead of the remote reading, but suppose you slipped and fell while doing so? Suppose the dust up there made you ill? Suppose any of the unlikely negative consequences affected your ability to provide for your family, son included.


It might seem like I'm being ridiculous bringing that up, but when you're comparing such infinitesimal risks (and NOTHING is risk free in this world) such things do become relevant. While there's no evidence the smart meter will cause harm, slips trips and falls are the single most common cause of workplace injuries.


You are not a fool for asking, but nor would you be failing your child by allowing the installation to go ahead. I say do it, and use the time you would have spent reading meters, reading stories. That's something that will be a net positive in your son's life

I wouldn't have to go up to read the meter. Again I will say, at the moment, the meter is in an accessible cupboard under the stairs.

My point is, again, never minding the whys and wherefores or the ifs and buts or the maybes, I do not want a smart meter in my loft 3 feet above my sons head while he sleeps.

System

OP - I suggest that you have a read of this link:

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposure/smart-meters.html

It is also worth pointing out that smart meters will eventually work on a Wide Area Network basis (extended wifi if you like). It follows that whether you have a smart meter or not - unless you live in an isolated croft in the Scottish Highlands - you are going to be surrounded by smart meters connected into a mesh. We all worry about our health and, most importantly, that our children; however, small risks tend to be seen as large risks just because they appear in the Press. I find it odd that people will oppose smart meters on the basis of RF radiation but are quite happy to jet off on holiday with no thought at all to effects of cosmic radiation.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/aircrew/cosmicionizingradiation.html

meherenow

Hengus wrote: »

It depends on who is paying for the energy consumed. Using your logic, owners of homes who have rented out their roofs for PV Solar could be forced to accept a smart meter.

Quote: Smart meters for landlords

As a landlord, if you pay the energy bills directly for your tenants (e.g., you are the account holder), then you will be the one to confirm your supplier's request to install a new smart meter to your property. You are also entitled to request a smart meter for your property from your supplier.

If your tenant pays the bills directly (e.g. he or she is the account holder), then the tenant is entitled to accept and authorise a smart meter installation in your property. The tenant will be advised to give you a head’s up so that you’re aware of the works taking place. Unquote

(Source: Uswitch and others)

I had also read this but unsure whether it applies in the case of HA installed Solar PV.

I pay for all the imported (regular) electricity as any regular homeowner would do - it's a house so there are no communal areas with any separate meters that the HA would pay for.

meherenow

Hengus wrote: »

OP - I suggest that you have a read of this link:

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposure/smart-meters.html

It is also worth pointing out that smart meters will eventually work on a Wide Area Network basis (extended wifi if you like). It follows that whether you have a smart meter or not - unless you live in an isolated croft in the Scottish Highlands - you are going to be surrounded by smart meters connected into a mesh. We all worry about our health and, most importantly, that our children; however, small risks tend to be seen as large risks just because they appear in the Press. I find it odd that people will oppose smart meters on the basis of RF radiation but are quite happy to jet off on holiday with no thought at all to effects of cosmic radiation.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/aircrew/cosmicionizingradiation.html

Well the top link contains the following that I have also read elsewhere:

"RF radiation is classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), as “possibly carcinogenic to humans.” This is based on the finding of a possible link in at least one study between cell phone use and a specific type of brain tumor. Because RF radiation is a possible carcinogen, and smart meters give off RF radiation, it is possible that smart meters could increase cancer risk. Still, it isn’t clear what risk, if any there might be from living in a home with a smart meter."

50 years ago asbestos was a great idea too.

What happens with mesh networks etc in the future is exactly that, in the future - not next week with a smart meter 3 feet above my sons head.

I really am not interested in debating whether or not it will cause any ill effects. The fact once again is that there is not enough evidence on EITHER side, so the earlier answer about it already being solved as "not proven" is laughable! That poster should check out what that means in Scottish law, it certainly does not mean not guilty (as well as it not meaning guilty either - exactly what I pointed out in my OP).

[Deleted User]

Hengus , I am referring only to the solar panel meter which the OP says the HA want to change to a smart meter, not the smart meter in the property for the main usage.
Of course that is nt obligatory but the HA may well have it in their terms and conditions that tenants accept smart meters.
It is in the HA interests that their tenants manage their billings efficiently and accurately.

System

Houbara wrote: »

Hengus , I am referring only to the solar panel meter which the OP says the HA want to change to a smart meter, not the smart meter in the property for the main usage.
Of course that is nt obligatory but the HA may well have it in their terms and conditions that tenants accept smart meters.
It is in the HA interests that their tenants manage their billings efficiently and accurately.

You make a very good point. This is one that the OP will have to argue about with her HA.

Edit:

This is an extract from a local Council’s agreement:

Your obligations –
a. You will allow us or the Provider (and
our, or the Provider’s employees or contractors acting on our, or the Provider’s behalf) access at reasonable times and subject to reasonable notice to install, maintain, repair, replace or undertake other works to, or inspect the condition of the Solar Panel System and to take meter readings. This may
32
involve putting up scaffolding to safely access the roof of your Home. You must ensure that access to the Solar Panel System is kept clear.

Raxiel

meherenow wrote: »

Well the top link contains the following that I have also read elsewhere:

"RF radiation is classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), as “possibly carcinogenic to humans.” This is based on the finding of a possible link in at least one study between cell phone use and a specific type of brain tumor. Because RF radiation is a possible carcinogen, and smart meters give off RF radiation, it is possible that smart meters could increase cancer risk. Still, it isn’t clear what risk, if any there might be from living in a home with a smart meter."

50 years ago asbestos was a great idea too.

What happens with mesh networks etc in the future is exactly that, in the future - not next week with a smart meter 3 feet above my sons head.

I really am not interested in debating whether or not it will cause any ill effects. The fact once again is that there is not enough evidence on EITHER side, so the earlier answer about it already being solved as "not proven" is laughable! That poster should check out what that means in Scottish law, it certainly does not mean not guilty (as well as it not meaning guilty either - exactly what I pointed out in my OP).

There is overwhelming evidence on one side and no real evidence on the other. RF radiation is carcinogenic to humans, because you can get skin cancer if you spend all day and every day sunbathing. That doesn't mean the wavelengths and power output we're talking about here are carcinogenic.


Relating it to asbestos is a false equivalence too. Once people investigated that substance for harmful effects they were found and it was banned. People have been looking for harmful effects of man-made RF radiation but still haven't found it. Also, there isn't a big ball of asbestos in the sky, blasting us with fibres for an average of 12 hours a day.



I was trying to set your mind at ease, but you seem to have made it up and closed it off before you even got here, so I'm out.


Edited to add as a final thought: OP, I understand you said in your first post that you didn't want to get into a discussion about RF, but this is a public forum and the 'why' not just the 'what' will always come into the conversation when talking about smart meters.
For my own part, I hope you didn't take my posts as an attack on you, and I'm sorry if you did. But that wasn't how they were intended.

st999

-You don't need a tin foil hat you just need to put the tin foil on the ceiling under the meter:rotfl:

Mister_G

To be fair, you may find that the ceiling is already covered with foil back plasterboard for insulation reasons.