Housing Assoc. want to install smart meter 3ft from sons bed.

Merlin139

meherenow wrote: »

Then my hands will be tied won't they?

The very fact that it is monitoring how much is generated and how much is being exported means they can easily ascertain our own usage pattern.

The only information it will send is what the panels produce. It will not tell what you are exporting so it will not show your usage.

These types of devices have been used for the last 6 or so years by rent a roof companies.

meherenow

Merlin139 wrote: »

The only information it will send is what the panels produce. It will not tell what you are exporting so it will not show your usage.

These types of devices have been used for the last 6 or so years by rent a roof companies.

Are you sure about that - the representative has told me it is to be installed so they can monitor the feed in tariff.

Here's just one of many I could point out:

https://guide.openenergymonitor.org/applications/solar-pv/


Solar PV generation
Site-consumption
Solar PV generation used on-site (self-site-consumption)
Solar PV generation exported to the grid
Electricity imported from the grid
Real-time & historic daily, monthly and annual totals


Seems like if they install the right thing it would be pretty easy to build up quite the picture of our family usage.

System

meherenow wrote: »

Then my hands will be tied won't they?

This is exactly my query - DO they have the legal right?

Although you may not see how any personal information can be gathered from such a meter I disagree. The very fact that it is monitoring how much is generated and how much is being exported means they can easily ascertain our own usage pattern. Why should I grant anyone this?

You may say why SHOULDN'T I...

Some people are too eager to accept a "Big Brother" mentality further impinge into our lives in the name of progress, but that arguement is for another day.

I just don't want a "smart" meter - that is the bottom line, again I say, never minding the whys and wherefores...

Yes - I believe that they do. They will no doubt have carried out a business appraisal that balances costs with risks and have probably concluded that remote meter reading is both cost effective and safer for their employees than climbing into lofts. They will no doubt have taken note of the fact that smart meters are being installed in properties throughout the land so, on that basis, any third party health risk is minimal.

That said, a responsible landlord should take note of the concerns of its tenants. Rather than dismissing smart meters out of hand, have you voiced your concerns and asked whether the meter could be located In another part of the loft away from your son’s bedroom? You might offer a contribution towards any additional installation costs.

Finally, you seem to be looking for one reason after another to support your case. An export meter is not reporting usage in the same way as an import smart meter. It is pretty easy for anyone to look at your roof and calculate your annual generation based on location and the size and number of panels. There are no privacy issues here in my opinion.

Health Risk:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-meters-radio-waves-and-health/smart-meters-radio-waves-and-health


The results confirm PHE’s existing advice that exposure to radio waves from smart meters is well below the guidelines set by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP).

The study also concluded that exposure to the radio waves produced by smart meters is likely to be much lower than that from other everyday devices such as mobile phones and Wi-Fi equipment.

Merlin139

meherenow wrote: »

Are you sure about that - the representative has told me it is to be installed so they can monitor the feed in tariff.

Here's just one of many I could point out:

https://guide.openenergymonitor.org/applications/solar-pv/


Solar PV generation
Site-consumption
Solar PV generation used on-site (self-site-consumption)
Solar PV generation exported to the grid
Electricity imported from the grid
Real-time & historic daily, monthly and annual totals


Seems like if they install the right thing it would be pretty easy to build up quite the picture of our family usage.

That would be the type of device I would install if my Gen Meter was in my loft and it was not a SolarEdge System. The Housing Association has no requirement for the information.

They probably want to know eachday that the system is working. If it develops a fault they would not know unless they were getting the production total eachday. I would advise that you ask the HA exactly what device they will be fitting so you can confirm what that device does.

To give the information listed it will require 2 clamps, 1 before the fuse box and one after as shown in the diagram on the link you provided.

thorganby

meherenow wrote: »

Then my hands will be tied won't they?

This is exactly my query - DO they have the legal right?

Although you may not see how any personal information can be gathered from such a meter I disagree. The very fact that it is monitoring how much is generated and how much is being exported means they can easily ascertain our own usage pattern. Why should I grant anyone this?

You may say why SHOULDN'T I...

Some people are too eager to accept a "Big Brother" mentality further impinge into our lives in the name of progress, but that arguement is for another day.

I just don't want a "smart" meter - that is the bottom line, again I say, never minding the whys and wherefores...

"Big Brother" doesn't come into this, it is not a smart meter, they simply want to replace the existing solar generation meter with one that does not require reading and periodically sends back generation figures to the owner of the panels. This enables them to know quickly if/when the panels become faulty and are not generating and require attention.

You have incorrectly assumed that it will send both generation and export figures. They do not have access to your export figures and are not interested in your usage patterns!

You are benefiting from the generated energy and the owner simply wants to ensure that the panels are functioning correctly and that they get their FIT payments.

I believe that the owner does have the legal right to do what they want to their equipment and that your assumptions are incorrect and irrelevant.

meherenow

Hengus wrote: »

Yes - I believe that they do. They will no doubt have carried out a business appraisal that balances costs with risks and have probably concluded that remote meter reading is both cost effective and safer for their employees than climbing into lofts. They will no doubt have taken note of the fact that smart meters are being installed in properties throughout the land so, on that basis, any third party health risk is minimal.

That said, a responsible landlord should take note of the concerns of its tenants. Rather than dismissing smart meters out of hand, have you voiced your concerns and asked whether the meter could be located In another part of the loft away from your son’s bedroom? You might offer a contribution towards any additional installation costs.

Finally, you seem to be looking for one reason after another to support your case. An export meter is not reporting usage in the same way as an import smart meter. It is pretty easy for anyone to look at your roof and calculate your annual generation based on location and the size and number of panels. There are no privacy issues here in my opinion.

Health Risk:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-meters-radio-waves-and-health/smart-meters-radio-waves-and-health


The results confirm PHE’s existing advice that exposure to radio waves from smart meters is well below the guidelines set by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP).

The study also concluded that exposure to the radio waves produced by smart meters is likely to be much lower than that from other everyday devices such as mobile phones and Wi-Fi equipment.

I have the feeling I've told you this before, THE CURRENT METER IS NOT IN THE LOFT - it is on the ground floor next to the other meters in a cupboard.

And again, opinions - well we know that everyone has one

I'm not looking for opinions - I feel I don't really need to explain myself at all about this, I already know the risk from RF radiation is pretty low, but it is not non-existent.

You will NOT be able to look at my roof and work out the times of day that my family are personally using the generated energy though will you?

I don't know why I keep repeating myself and then others keep repeating themselves.

I just do not want to have a smart meter continually monitoring and connecting with mobile masts - goodness me, AGAIN, the whys and wherefores do not concern me, I don't NEED to explain myself so you can argue against me, I am not interested in arguing the whys and wherefores.

I thought I had made that clear.

I just want to know if I can legally say I don't want one and that will be that.

meherenow

thorganby wrote: »

"Big Brother" doesn't come into this, it is not a smart meter, they simply want to replace the existing solar generation meter with one that does not require reading and periodically sends back generation figures to the owner of the panels. This enables them to know quickly if/when the panels become faulty and are not generating and require attention.

You have incorrectly assumed that it will send both generation and export figures. They do not have access to your export figures and are not interested in your usage patterns!

You are benefiting from the generated energy and the owner simply wants to ensure that the panels are functioning correctly and that they get their FIT payments.

I believe that the owner does have the legal right to do what they want to their equipment and that your assumptions are incorrect and irrelevant.

A lot of "believing" on here and "opinions".


I've already posted above that it will be pretty easy to fit a device that CAN record how much energy is used by the "site" (my home).

I do not want an ALWAYS ON mobile phone beaming out in my cupboard or my loft - it's very simple.

System

meherenow wrote: »

A lot of "believing" on here and "opinions".


I've already posted above that it will be pretty easy to fit a device that CAN record how much energy is used by the "site" (my home).

I do not want an ALWAYS ON mobile phone beaming out in my cupboard or my loft - it's very simple.

Have you actually had any discussions with your Housing Association about your concerns? The reason that we can all just opine is because only you have access to your tenancy agreement. If you want a legal opinion on your rights in this situation, then you will need to pay for/or get legal advice. This, in my opinion, is a situation best dealt with by ‘jaw jaw’ than ‘law law’. That said, if I was your Landlord, I would only be prepared to make reasonable adjustments to allay some of your concerns.

[Deleted User]

meherenow wrote: »

A lot of "believing" on here and "opinions".


I've already posted above that it will be pretty easy to fit a device that CAN record how much energy is used by the "site" (my home).

I do not want an ALWAYS ON mobile phone beaming out in my cupboard or my loft - it's very simple.

You have another option, move out of a HA property if you can t accept the business meter rules that the HA themselves are forced to accept. You have no options and you cannot negotiate this.
Business electric meters are not hidebound by Tory government decisions to allow domestic users to refuse the installation of smart meters. As I pointed out in my number 9 post that business smart meters work differently from domestic smart meters and they are not actually termed "smart " meters in the industry.
Please try and understand this OP, business meters, smart ,dumb or whatever are MANDATORY.
The Labour government were in power when smart meters were first introduced and it was none other than Ed Miliband who was the Energy secretary at the time who made smart meters mandatory when they were first introduced in the UK..
The new Tory government in an effort to get away from the "nasty " party image bowed to those who believed in fairy tales and mistakenly added more huge costs to the roll out giving Joe Public , for the first time in his life, a say-so in what type of meter is installed. This was a huge money saver to the millions extracting free gas/electric from the grids.
Most European countries who are engaged in installing smart meters, Germany and Sweden excepted have all made them mandatory.
The present government will be regretting giving the UK public any choice in having smart meters fitted . They will have to change the policy if they want to see the UK with a smart grid.
OP, why do you think that they can "monitor your own personal usage " by seeing how many kwhs the solar panels are exporting. They can t do that with a "smart " FIT meter .
I m involved in reading solar panel meters and many old analogue electric meters are illegally running backwards on the hotter days, whilst also crediting the F.I.T. meter .Suppliers can t monitor this happening at all and many households have been getting away with free electricity for years .
When I see this happening with the old Sangamo Weston meters I always notify the supplier through my PDA but they never take any notice anyway.
All suppliers can see that if an old analogue meter with a rotating barrel or ring is installed then if solar panels are fitted the meter reverses occasionally. They can see by the serial number of the meter that it is an unsuitable meter but that does nt stop them all being oblivious to that fact.

takman

meherenow wrote: »

I just do not want to have a smart meter continually monitoring and connecting with mobile masts - goodness me, AGAIN, the whys and wherefores do not concern me, I don't NEED to explain myself so you can argue against me, I am not interested in arguing the whys and wherefores.

It always amazes me how closed minded some people are and are perfectly happy forming an opinion when they don't have anywhere near all the facts and refuse to even consider the information they based that option on may be wrong.

You don't happen to be religious do you? :rotfl: