Housing Assoc. want to install smart meter 3ft from sons bed.

meherenow

Tin foil hat time (I await the first post that invites me to wrap my childrens heads in tin foil ).

We are lucky enough (after many many years on the waiting list) to have recently moved to a new build Housing Association house.

The property has solar panels which we benefit from and the HA then receives the feed in tariff (I assume, because we certainly don't).

The inverter is in the loft and the meter showing the generated kwh figure is in the cupboard under the stairs with the regular electric meter/fuse box and BT/Openreach equipment etc.

Received a call tonight from the contractor that deals with the panels for the HA to tell me that they wanted to arrange to move the generation meter into the loft next to the inverter and add a smart meter.

Now of course we have wi-fi, mobile phones etc (and I work in I.T. so I'd like to think I have a fair grasp of such things) but I cannot help but feel a bit uneasy at the thought of what is basically a mobile phone operating continually about 3 feet above where my children sleep in a bunk bed.

I'm told that the device will only send a reading once a night in the middle of the night, but the fact is that by having a SIM card it will be communicating with the mast even in the down time.

I'm trying not to be all tin foil hat about it as obviously there are a lot of conflicting reports regarding electromagnetic radiation and yes my kids will be exposed to it all day every day from other sources, but there can be no doubt that NOT having this smart meter installed will DEFINITELY not cause any extra risk.

I know that smart meters are not compulsory on normal meters, I just wonder if anyone knows if I am compelled to allow them to install such a meter on the solar exportation side as it obviously belongs to the HA.

I am more than happy to send them a reading from the meter at reasonable intervals should they ask me for it.

The first I heard of this was tonight so I haven't had a chance to find out what the HA's position is, just thought I would garner some opinion first.

I'm not after a heated debate on whether RF waves are the new asbestos (my opinion - I don't know either way), just wondering if this is something I can challenge because I am sure that given the choice I would not choose to have a smart meter operating a few feet from my children heads while they sleep and play in their room.

iammumtoone

How old are your children? I don't think I would want a smart meter in my sons room, not anything to do with your worries more the fact I could not trust that he wouldn't break/fiddle with it!



If it needs to be upstairs could they put it in your bedroom?

meherenow

It's to be in the loft, but more or less straight above through the ceiling from where my son sleeps on the top bunk.

I wouldn't want it above my room either!

[Deleted User]

There are only reports of electromagnetic radiation fears of smart meters on extremist off the wall loony websites such as Stopsmartmeters.org.uk who are looking for any angle/lie to discredit smart meters. Its total rubbish !
They operate a little like the BBC does with constant negatives on Brexit to suit their own agenda.
Any bad news is good news for Stopsmartmeters.org. Plenty more fairy tales on that website other than EMF.
I have to go in lofts occasionally to read solar panel meters. I m not surprised they want to eliminate me putting my foot through the ceiling.
I ve had some close calls in the past walking along the joists by torchlight hunting for a little meter. So far I have never seen a smart solar panel meter in use
Smart meters are installed all over houses, in front rooms, larders, under the stairs, over doors all quite close to human proximity.
Are you going to ban your children ever using mobiles half an inch from their brain ?

meherenow

Houbara wrote: »

There are only reports of electromagnetic radiation fears of smart meters on extremist off the wall loony websites such as Stopsmartmeters.org.uk who are looking for any angle/lie to discredit smart meters. Its total rubbish !
They operate a little like the BBC does with constant negatives on Brexit to suit their own agenda.
Any bad news is good news for Stopsmartmeters.org. Plenty more fairy tales on that website other than EMF.
I have to go in lofts occasionally to read solar panel meters. I m not surprised they want to eliminate me putting my foot through the ceiling.
I ve had some close calls in the past walking along the joists by torchlight hunting for a little meter. So far I have never seen a smart solar panel meter in use
Smart meters are installed all over houses, in front rooms, larders, under the stairs, over doors all quite close to human proximity.
Are you going to ban your children ever using mobiles half an inch from their brain ?

Well, it didn't take long for the tin foil hat accusations to come out lol!

Did you read my post? I'm not looking for a debate on this - the jury is still out there that's for sure. Although your comment on the BBC and Brexit makes me wonder whether it's not YOU that is overly paranoid as you appear to insinuate I am!

The meter is NOT currently in my loft, it is next to the regular import electric meter under the stairs, so at the moment nobody will be falling through the ceiling...

Privacy concerns are another issue for me - why on earth would I want anyone to monitor our usage of the panels?

This constant gathering and manipulation of personal data should worry any sane and logically thinking person.

System

meherenow wrote: »

Privacy concerns are another issue for me - why on earth would I want anyone to monitor our usage of the panels?

This constant gathering and manipulation of personal data should worry any sane and logically thinking person.

Usage of your panels - no. How much you actually export - yes. All energy consumers ( with panels or not) pay for FITs.

We all want cheap energy. For every £ that we pay, only 33p covers the wholesale cost of the energy that suppliers buy. The other 67p covers other costs. A big chunk of the 67p covers the cost of contingency planning; that is, having power stations; diesel generators etc held on standby just in case it is an extremely cold day and the country is covered in freezing fog with no PV solar or wind power. Part of the 67p goes to pay wind turbine owners to feather the blades on their turbines when too much power is being generated. If sum, smart meters in a smart grid offer the industry ways of reducing operating costs going forward by profiling your actual usage in 30 minute samples, and better matching supply with demand through unit price variations. Other cost reductions come as a result of reduced metering costs and smart Grid fault detection.

All that said, we are all entitled to an opinion. However, in my view, it is only a question of time before smart meters reach a critical mass and we see Time of Use tariffs as the norm. There will undoubtedly still be legacy tariffs but my guess is that these will reflect the additional costs associated with supporting these types of meter. They will become the Economy 10 meters of the future where switching suppliers becomes increasingly difficult.

meherenow

Hengus wrote: »

Usage of your panels - no. How much you actually export - yes. All energy consumers ( with panels or not) pay for FITs.

However you want to spin it, it would be relatively simple for a minor brainiac to use the data to compare the amount generated with my neighbours figures to extrapolate some form of usage chart.

Never mind the whys and wherefores, whether myself and my family do this, that or the other elsewhere - it is technically my data.

I agree about the time of use tariffs though - a worrying concept encouraging people to leave high draw appliances on in the middle of the night when sleeping...

Anyway, this is NOT the point.

Does anyone know if I can legally refuse this smart meter as I am able to do with my own import meter(s)?

System

meherenow wrote: »

However you want to spin it, it would be relatively simple for a minor brainiac to use the data to compare the amount generated with my neighbours figures to extrapolate some form of usage chart.

Never mind the whys and wherefores, whether myself and my family do this, that or the other elsewhere - it is technically my data.

I agree about the time of use tariffs though - a worrying concept encouraging people to leave high draw appliances on in the middle of the night when sleeping...

Anyway, this is NOT the point.

Does anyone know if I can legally refuse this smart meter as I am able to do with my own import meter(s)?

From the legislation that I have read, no landlord has the right to force you to accept a smart meter. That said, under Ofgem rules, saying 'no' doesn't mean 'no'. Suppliers have the right to insist on a meter exchange at End of Life and they can fit a smart meter without an active communications hub; moreover, they have the right to keep asking you to accept a smart meter.

[Deleted User]

The "jury is nt out " it delivered its verdict years ago..not proven.By the way, smart meters, at least the modern ones, do not contain a SIM card.They were phased out years ago. They use a "hub "
The solar panels are not your property and if the HA want to monitor the output /usage then its entirely up to them what sort of meter they install.The rent a roof scheme is great for tenants because they get the free electric in the day time . Not much use if you re out all day tho except for fridge/freezers/standbys. This summer would have been a good time with 3.5 kw to use on many days
No you cannot legally refuse what sort of meter the HA want to install IMO. Business meters operate in a smart mode , although not quite the same as domestic smart meters, and they have no rights to refuse, they are mandatory.
I would think that the HA run the solar panels on a business contract as they do on their own electric meters that they run in their properties, eg for landings, hallway and other lighting

Raxiel

OP, I understand your concerns, but I don't believe you have anything to worry about.


(To be fair to Houbara, you mentioned tin foil first, and he's not wrong about stopsmartmeters.org)


The meter uses the SMS protocol to communicate yes, but this is a very low level of output and, even if there are regular pings it is certainly not constant (also, he won't be in the bed all day every day presumably). Working in IT I'm sure you know that EM absorption drops off with the square of the distance, reducing that tiny amount even further. There's absolutely no evidence it would be harmful. Or at least, no more harmful than the background radiation that bathes everything under the sun.



One other thing, you say that you're comparing the very low risk of having it against the NO risk of not having it. But is that really the case? You say you'd be happy to go up and read it yourself instead of the remote reading, but suppose you slipped and fell while doing so? Suppose the dust up there made you ill? Suppose any of the unlikely negative consequences affected your ability to provide for your family, son included.


It might seem like I'm being ridiculous bringing that up, but when you're comparing such infinitesimal risks (and NOTHING is risk free in this world) such things do become relevant. While there's no evidence the smart meter will cause harm, slips trips and falls are the single most common cause of workplace injuries.


You are not a fool for asking, but nor would you be failing your child by allowing the installation to go ahead. I say do it, and use the time you would have spent reading meters, reading stories. That's something that will be a net positive in your son's life

System

Houbara wrote: »

No you cannot legally refuse what sort of meter the HA want to install IMO. Business meters operate in a smart mode , although not quite the same as domestic smart meters, and they have no rights to refuse, they are mandatory.

It depends on who is paying for the energy consumed. Using your logic, owners of homes who have rented out their roofs for PV Solar could be forced to accept a smart meter.

Quote: Smart meters for landlords

As a landlord, if you pay the energy bills directly for your tenants (e.g., you are the account holder), then you will be the one to confirm your supplier's request to install a new smart meter to your property. You are also entitled to request a smart meter for your property from your supplier.

If your tenant pays the bills directly (e.g. he or she is the account holder), then the tenant is entitled to accept and authorise a smart meter installation in your property. The tenant will be advised to give you a head’s up so that you’re aware of the works taking place. Unquote

(Source: Uswitch and others)