Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-12-14/how-ireland-outmaneuvered-britain-on-brexit
Interesting article. I doubt many people hand on heart considered the ramifications for the Irish question when they voted for brexit!

The Irish do seem !!!!-a-hoop with their situation re. the Brexit negotiations at the moment it has to be said.
They do need to be a little careful however as an unexpected no-deal could still have Varadkar having to go his Parliament and explaining how a deal that protected Irish interests slipped from his grasp.

phillw

kabayiri wrote: »

Again, it doesn't matter. The whole Irish situation has been a mess ever since I've existed on this rock.

So don't ask me to start caring now.

And people have been having melt downs about foreigners telling us what to do since I've been born.

Tromking wrote: »

The Irish do seem !!!!-a-hoop with their situation re. the Brexit negotiations at the moment it has to be said.
They do need to be a little careful however as an unexpected no-deal could still have Varadkar having to go his Parliament and explaining how a deal that protected Irish interests slipped from his grasp.

They don't really have any choice. It's the UK that is steering the ship into the rocks.

kabayiri wrote: »

But on a negotiating level it's been a big failure. And we are supposed to believe this same bunch would have pushed forward our interests inside the EU. Fat chance.

Right, which is why we should keep the EU and get rid of the conservatives. They are the ones that are responsible. We've handed them the keys to the cookie jar.

BLB53 wrote: »

I think most people agree it would be far better all round if we leave on good terms with a fair deal. However I am not sure how PM has managed to get such a bad deal.

EU have just completed a big trade deal with Japan. No paying billions, no loss of sovereignty, no freedom of movement, not subject to EU laws.

So where are we going wrong???

Where you're going wrong is you think that leaving the EU will make things better, it won't & even the brexiteers are saying that it won't.

We never lost sovereignty by the way, that was just something that was said to make you feel like voting to leave.

Theresa May actually got a pretty good deal, she's getting a hard time because the ERG can't cope with cooperating with foreigners & the opposition can't be seen to give her an easy time. The whole backstop thing is just insane, it's implemented there to prevent either side turning into bad actors. Rees Mogg etc want it removed, because he wants to turn into a bad actor and have nothing to stop him.

We should just cancel it and sort out the real problems rather than pretending (like always) that blaming foreigners will ever solve anything.

If you don't understand the difference between Japan and the UK then maybe you're not equipped for these discussions? They've been in negotiations for five years and they had a much more to offer.

ukcarper

Tromking wrote: »

The Irish do seem !!!!-a-hoop with their situation re. the Brexit negotiations at the moment it has to be said.
They do need to be a little careful however as an unexpected no-deal could still have Varadkar having to go his Parliament and explaining how a deal that protected Irish interests slipped from his grasp.

It looks to me like EU think we will not leave and are banking on it, if we do go on WTO term it's not only U.K. government who will have some explaining to do.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

It looks to me like EU think we will not leave and are banking on it, if we do go on WTO term it's not only U.K. government who will have some explaining to do.

No, the EU have prepared for it & all the Europeans I've spoken to see brexit as self harm and that we're at fault in the negotiations.

The people who voted for brexit will have explaining to do & nobody else.

kabayiri

masterwilde wrote: »

There in lies the problem, brexit is not a local issue but a national one, as such the MP's are responsible and accountable for the united kingdom on a constitutional level.

It didn't come across that way to the voters though.

On one side, you had Osborne spouting projections on a national level by the year 2030.

On the other, you had prominent Leave campaigners showing bill boards of loads of people coming; talking of stresses on the NHS and schools; talking about how the EU didn't care about your/my problems.

Not only was Cameron unprepared for the referendum outcome. He was unprepared for the tactics which would be used during the campaign.

He got found out and exposed.

Zero_Gravitas

phillw wrote: »

The people who voted for brexit will have explaining to do & nobody else.

Although they'll be too busy blaming everybody else but themselves to take any actual responsibility for what they have done.

phillw

kabayiri wrote: »

It didn't come across that way to the voters though.

On one side, you had Osborne spouting projections on a national level by the year 2030.

On the other, you had prominent Leave campaigners showing bill boards of loads of people coming; talking of stresses on the NHS and schools; talking about how the EU didn't care about your/my problems.

Right, leave appealed to xenophobia and 52% of people said yes. It was all lies and misappropriating blame. They didn't have to fall for it.

kabayiri

phillw wrote: »

Right, leave appealed to xenophobia and 52% of people said yes. It was all lies and misappropriating blame. They didn't have to fall for it.

Fear sells. Ask any life insurance sales rep.

You seem surprised that politicians would consider dirty tactics.

Speaking of fear, what is PM May doing now? Using fear tactics to bully MPs into accepting that only her deal has any chance. The alternative hands power to Labour, yada yada.

They just can't help it.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

No, the EU have prepared for it & all the Europeans I've spoken to see brexit as self harm and that we're at fault in the negotiations.

The people who voted for brexit will have explaining to do & nobody else.

But you believe anything the EU tell you WTO rules will impact hard on Ireland and EU countries that export to us. You need to obtain a more balanced outlook and treat everything with scepticism not just the comments of brexiters.

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

No, the EU have prepared for it & all the Europeans I've spoken to see brexit as self harm and that we're at fault in the negotiations.

I doubt that many actually care. Like us. They have bigger concerns to contend with on a daily basis. Voting in European elections hardly endorses the "project" and direction of travel. Hence the more recent signs of dissatisfaction.