Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

BLB53

And thats the whole point people (the issue is mps) are arguing endlessly about a "deal" when people have never said theyve wanted one.

I think most people agree it would be far better all round if we leave on good terms with a fair deal. However I am not sure how PM has managed to get such a bad deal.

EU have just completed a big trade deal with Japan. No paying billions, no loss of sovereignty, no freedom of movement, not subject to EU laws.

So where are we going wrong???

kabayiri

BLB53 wrote: »

I think most people agree it would be far better all round if we leave on good terms with a fair deal. However I am not sure how PM has managed to get such a bad deal.
...

The standard A50 just gives you a window in which to agree terms other than the default exit.

That's it really. It doesn't put any qualitative assessment on the terms.

It doesn't exclude further discussions after a default exit either.

We should be talking to other countries outside the EU right now about alternate supplies for stuff like food imports.

The EU have openly said they are preparing for the No Deal scenario, and we should too.

If no EU citizen rights can be guaranteed, we should also be looking to other countries for replacements. The EU is not the only place for labour; we get just as many people every year from outside the EU.

mustiuc

Where will be the "control of our borders" when you will bring as much as non eu people to "replace" those already in (and contributing to the society)?
I don't understand the mean of doing deals with other !!!!ries; why would they choose UK instead of the largest market in the world? Why "you, as a farmer" don't sell your potatoes to the local shop and sell them to Holland,Germany,Spain?
Nobody is speaking about those millions of brits living and working in eu. Does they matter or shall we be prepared for a double standard?

If I could change the world or be able to do miracles... my miracle will be to get all eu's nationals out of UK today. The brits from eu can stay and do whatever they like/want but I would "kick out" 3+ milion of people back to their countries and let UK to be sovereign and independent from today.
You can't have love with force.

MiserlyMartin

Filo25 wrote: »

Brexit in name only would be the Norway+ option, May's deal may be an unpopular mess which is unlikely to get through Parliament but it is Brexit and not just in name.

May's deal is certainly not Brexit at all! That is the problem.

MiserlyMartin

Crashy_Time wrote: »

It will be her deal (not going to happen without major change?) or No Deal, the narrative in the media is changing more and more towards No Deal (which isn`t a good description anyway) Time is tight, the EU is going to face upheaval in May, they can`t show any weakness now, although long run the EU as it stands is still finished.

Yes it's not no deal, it's brexit. It's been proved continually since the 90s that it is impossible to negotiate anything with the European Union, that's why the referendum was given and in large part why we voted to leave. We did not vote for a deal we voted to leave. End of. We would have been out properly by now if it weren't the traitor May dragging it out, and doing a hopeless 'remaining in the EU' exit.

phillw

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

It's been proved continually since the 90s that it is impossible to negotiate anything with the European Union

It's been proved continually since the 90's that it's impossible to negotiate anything with the United Kingdom. We sulk, throw our toys out of our pram etc. The EU negotiate a lot.

The biggest problems the EU has caused are they introduced the working time directive, so you can't sack people for refusing to work more than 48 hours. They also enforce the same view as the UN, so you can't extradite someone to a country where they will face torture or death.

The EU is all about working together in a healthy way as possible. Leave is all about hate.

Your hate makes you passionately want to leave the EU so the UK government can solve all the problems in the UK. But none of the problems in the UK are caused by the EU, they are caused by the UK government. Unless Labour get voted in then nothing positive will change. If anything the UK government free from the EU will make your life and the life of your friends, family and loved ones worse.

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

that's why the referendum was given and in large part why we voted to leave. We did not vote for a deal we voted to leave. End of. We would have been out properly by now if it weren't the traitor May dragging it out, and doing a hopeless 'remaining in the EU' exit.

If it wasn't for the traitors selling you on the idea that leaving was practical, then we wouldn't be leaving.

We'll likely stay closely aligned with the EU, because it would be suicide to do anything else. Sure some rich out of touch elite will be happy to give that a go. Rees Mogg thinks it will be 50 years before we make up the negative effects of brexit and are back to the same level as we are today.

It's up to you if that makes you angrier. I will carry on treating people from the EU with respect.

kabayiri wrote: »

The EU have openly said they are preparing for the No Deal scenario, and we should too.

That would help our negotiation strategy, but it would send the message to businesses that they should accelerate relocation. I'm pretty sure nobody elected their MP so that they could put a government in place that spooked business to abandon the UK.

If you don't care how much damage is caused to the UK as long as we are out of the EU, then I think you're in the minority and the government doesn't have a mandate for that. While leading brexiters are clear that the UK will be severely affected economically by brexit, the majority of people who voted for brexit don't appear to share the same view (this is because the brexiters withheld that information before the referendum).

There is zero chance that parliament will choose to trade on WTO terms with the EU post brexit. We'll be luck if the tariffs and other increased costs come to £350 million a week, we'll probably lose more than that (and don't forget the £350 million a week included money that went to UK causes, which will need funding post brexit)

Theophile

BLB53 wrote: »

I think most people agree it would be far better all round if we leave on good terms with a fair deal. However I am not sure how PM has managed to get such a bad deal.

EU have just completed a big trade deal with Japan. No paying billions, no loss of sovereignty, no freedom of movement, not subject to EU laws.

So where are we going wrong???

EU and Japan have completed a trade deal.
The PM's deal you claim to be 'bad' is the withdrawal agreement.
We're still to start negotiating any trade deal.


Your comments show exactly why a referendum is a bad idea.
Most people just don't have a clue.

Herzlos

BLB53 wrote: »

So where are we going wrong???

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to please 2 contradictory groups, with no clue what we actually want or how to proceed. We're also hugely outclassed here, with the cream of European politicians and negotiators up against the dregs of what's left of the Tory party.

We need to be honest with the pros and cons of Brexit, decide who we're upsetting and move on or hold another referendum.

Herzlos

spadoosh wrote: »

So no one wants planes to stop flying. Why will they? Because there needs to be a deal? The deal is already made because everyone i salready happy to keep the planes flying.

Planes are an example of dozens of things that could go wrong by default. No-one wants planes to stop flying, but the regulations needed to fly into various airspaces require an equivalent regulator and safety standards. You can't fly a non-approved plane into anywhere. Our regulator is currently the EU one, which has a deal with the US, etc for recognition due to equivalence.
When we leave, we either need our own regulator which needs to be recognised by the world (hopefully that'll be quick if it's a carbon copy of the EUs) or we need to arrange to continue to use the EUs (which will involve paying them money for it's upkeep and adherence to the ECJ so that it has teeth).

If we fail to make a deal then legally (and more importantly, in terms of liability) we don't have airlines which are approved to fly outside of the UK. Some countries may ignore that at their risk, or give us some time to adjust, but legally they'd be forced to refuse.

If we had a competent government it wouldn't be an issue, but we don't so it's a genuine concern.

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

It's been proved continually since the 90's that it's impossible to negotiate anything with the United Kingdom. We sulk, throw our toys out of our pram etc. The EU negotiate a lot.

The EU is all about working together in a healthy way as possible. Leave is all about hate.

Care to share specific examples.

Seems zero discussion about membership has impacted peoples daily lives. More so how it would in the future.