Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Herzlos

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

The Irish didn't really have to vote again in 2002 after rejecting the EU's Treaty of Nice in 2001, OR again 2009 after saying no to the Lisbon Treaty in 2008.
Just for Herzlos who seems too lazy to press a button or two when it doesn't suit, a report from 2008 when the Irish rejected the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty

Yes, that sums up the EU then with the treaty, "arrogant, insulting and undemocratic". Will it be the same now with Brexit?

The Treaty of Lisbon whilst having the same name in both referendums, had been changed by the Irish Government between them, with some Irish specific exclusions added. It was rejected with 53.4% first time and the amended one passed with 67.1%.


Treaty of Nice was the same. Rejected, adjusted and then approved.


Neither sounds like the original claim of the EU asking the same question until they get the "correct" answer - because they adjusted the deal until they got one that Ireland was happy with. That sounds like exactly how anyone should approach deals.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

The Treaty of Lisbon whilst having the same name in both referendums, had been changed by the Irish Government between them, with some Irish specific exclusions added. It was rejected with 53.4% first time and the amended one passed with 67.1%.


Treaty of Nice was the same. Rejected, adjusted and then approved.


Neither sounds like the original claim of the EU asking the same question until they get the "correct" answer - because they adjusted the deal until they got one that Ireland was happy with. That sounds like exactly how anyone should approach deals.

...so we should reject the EU deal offered to PM May, until something pops up which passes with 67% approval?

Yeah, I'll go for that.

A_Pandiculation

Herzlos wrote: »

Neither sounds like the original claim of the EU asking the same question until they get the "correct" answer - because they adjusted the deal until they got one that Ireland was happy with. That sounds like exactly how anyone should approach deals.

It's interesting to see that you're not saying that now after MP's of all parties rejected the proposed deal before it even got to a vote, or are you saying that the EU are wrong about still saying "this is the only deal" then because they aren't adjusting the deal?

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

It's only ~30% of people in the UK that have said they wanted to leave.

More than have expressed a desire to be in the club. The apathy is an indication as to how detached Brussels is from peoples day to day lives.

buglawton

48 letters received. Confidence vote could be tonight.

Zero_Gravitas

buglawton wrote: »

48 letters received. Confidence vote could be tonight.

Hang on - didn’t the Tories have a leadership election in 2016? Isn’t it going to be anti-democratic to have another one, just because they might have changed their minds since last time?

gfplux

I see that Theresa May faces a vote of no confidence today (Wednesday) or so the BBC says.
Frankly while I am upset about how Britain has handled the negotiations and its image during the last two years I have grown to admire May for her courage and Strength.
Frankly I prefer the devil I know to the devil who may come in her place.

I hope she wins today.

vivatifosi

I hope she wins to gfplux. I am a pragmatic remainer, but don't see how a better deal can be achieved given that both sides (UK and EU) have a right to defend their positions. In the case of the UK no border on Ireland etc, in the case of the EU the Four Freedoms. Whatever happens next, these will almost certainly still be the red lines.


So what happens if she loses? Corbyn could win and would almost certainly push for something (given what Starmer says) morelike Norway, Boris et al have failed to table any tangible alternatives in spite of the hot air churned out and we risk either falling out with no deal or an extended exit process.


Meanwhile, nobody is addressing education, health, poverty, jobs, etc and all the other issues that matter to people outside of the Westminster bubble. I despair at the poor state of politics in this country right now.

Rinoa

gfplux wrote: »

I see that Theresa May faces a vote of no confidence today (Wednesday) or so the BBC says.
Frankly while I am upset about how Britain has handled the negotiations and its image during the last two years I have grown to admire May for her courage and Strength.
Frankly I prefer the devil I know to the devil who may come in her place.

I hope she wins today.

Not sure how you can justify that.

Remember her Mansion House, Florence and Lancaster House speeches where she claimed her red lines would never be crossed?

She eventually capitulated on every one.

Time for her to go.

LHW99

Corbyn could win

Didn't think he was in the running as Conservative leader