Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

Personally I think a core and periphery for Europe (as opposed to a 2-speed which implies everyone is getting to the same destination at different speeds) makes absolute sense

I doubt there's the appetite. Eire and the Netherlands won't relinquish their tax regimes at any time soon. Macron and Merkel are hardly the forces required to push such a change through. Not that Merkel is around much longer in her current capacity.

A_Pandiculation

StevieJ wrote: »

How times change, remember when Cameron was telling the Scots that the only way they could be a member of the EU was as a member of the UK :-)

No. Would you care to remind us?

A_Pandiculation

Backbiter wrote: »

May's mantra has always been 'No deal (ie WTO) is better than a bad deal'. Given that the deal on the table is her deal, which she obviously doesn't think is a bad deal', her mantra no longer applies.

Surely, therefore, her new mantra should be 'her deal or no Brexit', as no deal is not better than her deal. Amber Rudd seemed to argue this morning, when saying Parliament would never vote for no deal.

TBH if this draft doesn't get approved by all parties she doesn't really have a say.
The following explains it simply.
https://www.newstatesman.com/brexit-no-deal-amber-rudd-parliament-today-theresa-may-eu-uk-article-50

A_Pandiculation

Filo25 wrote: »

Personally I think a core and periphery for Europe (as opposed to a 2-speed which implies everyone is getting to the same destination at different speeds) makes absolute sense, if we had chosen to remain we would still have retained our veto and influence over the areas which mattered to us.

We would hardly have been alone in the periphery either,

That 2-speed proposal has been very widely dismissed & even in the EU they're saying it couldn't work. This from the pro-EU Politico explains why.

Some have called for the creation of a “two-speed Europe,” in which a small group of EU countries pursue tighter integration, leaving those unwilling to follow on the periphery.

This would be a mistake, and a dangerous one.

https://www.politico.eu/article/bohuslav-sobotka-oped-two-speed-europe-is-a-mistake/

Also more and more the EU moves towards QMV with vetoes being removed. The use of majority voting has been increasing in recent years & in September the Commission released another example of how they're gradually moving towards all decisions being majority-only.
Any veto capability now will mean nowt in the future.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-5683_en.htm

spadoosh

StevieJ wrote: »

How times change, remember when Cameron was telling the Scots that the only way they could be a member of the EU was as a member of the UK :-)




https://www.yahoo.com/news/spain-not-oppose-future-independent-scotland-rejoining-eu-175020945.html

So a spanish guy says he doesnt mind if scotland joins the EU and thats a win?

I raise you being in a union for 311 years and still being unable to get out of it. And having no central bank and no currency which are prerequisites for joining the EU. At the moment its hard to think Cameron was wrong.

Still at least when he can actually use his opinion at least hes there to back them ay?

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

We would have no way to avoid being dragged into the us of e.

We could always refuse to play along or ignore it. Like everyone complains France does when there's a rule it doesn't like.


Or we could leave at that point (assuming the Brexiteers have a plan by then).


We'd also have a say against it, so if the EU moves towards a US of E, it'd be because that's what everyone else wants.

Thrugelmir

spadoosh wrote: »

So a spanish guy says he doesnt mind if scotland joins the EU and thats a win?

Providing the Spanish retain the right to fish the waters of course. Nothing's for free.

Filo25

Herzlos wrote: »

We could always refuse to play along or ignore it. Like everyone complains France does when there's a rule it doesn't like.


Or we could leave at that point (assuming the Brexiteers have a plan by then).


We'd also have a say against it, so if the EU moves towards a US of E, it'd be because that's what everyone else wants.

That's the thing, when you are inside the EU and have numerous veto powers, you genuinely do have negotiating power.

I doubt many at the top level of the EU wants a 2-speed or variable geometry EU, but if you have some nations pushing for further integration and some vehemently not, then it doesn't seem a massively unlikely outcome in the future.

Enterprise_1701C

Herzlos wrote: »

We could always refuse to play along or ignore it. Like everyone complains France does when there's a rule it doesn't like.


Or we could leave at that point (assuming the Brexiteers have a plan by then).


We'd also have a say against it, so if the EU moves towards a US of E, it'd be because that's what everyone else wants.

I very much doubt that they will let anyone else leave easily, they will probably bring in a system whereby everyone gets a vote on whether you can leave or not, they can't have anyone else stall their march toward federalism. This is the time to leave, the only reason it is causing problems is because it was never intended to happen, they never thought that anyone would see through their plans.

As for ignoring it, we would probably end up with a thumping great fine, especially as they permanently want more more more money, so they can run two parliaments and have all the trappings of the us of e.

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I very much doubt that they will let anyone else leave easily, they will probably bring in a system whereby everyone gets a vote on whether you can leave or not, they can't have anyone else stall their march toward federalism. This is the time to leave, the only reason it is causing problems is because it was never intended to happen, they never thought that anyone would see through their plans.[/quite]

But they haven't made it hard for us to leave; they've been pretty accommodating.

As for ignoring it, we would probably end up with a thumping great fine, especially as they permanently want more more more money, so they can run two parliaments and have all the trappings of the us of e.

We could ignore the fine, too. Don't France and Spain flaunt all the rules they don't like with impunity anyway? I thought that was one of the reasons for leaving.

I just don't buy the idea that the EU has or will push us around. Certainly a lot less than if we're a little 3rd country off their coast.