Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

A_Pandiculation

cogito wrote: »

Don't you think that with the UK being one of the Five Eyes, that the EU might need us more than we need them?

You're using those nasty "facts" and "logic" thingies again that so many remainers just don't seem to [STRIKE]be able[/STRIKE] want to understand.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

Don't you think that _______ that the EU might need us more than we need them?

The answer to any "they need us more than we need them" is a resounding no. Being that the Five Eyes seems to be an international agreement of which the EU is one Eye, our access to that isn't going to change. We may need to access EU internal security systems via the Five Eyes program rather than directly.

I accept there could be technical problems but we and by we I mean EU and U.K. should be looking at ways to overcome them, not saying we will take a tough line and on security with U.K.

I agree that we should be working with them to overcome issues, but if we're to become a 3rd party we need to revert back to complete 3rd party status and negotiate from there. As said there's a lot more involved than disabling our accounts on a computer system; for us to access any EU wide system we need to play by all the rules required for that system which almost certainly includes deference to the ECJ. I'm not against that at all, but it seems to be a big Brexit red line.


Anything else is just another example of having cake and eating it.



Maybe we should be looking at trying to get some international system set up that will allow any other 3rd party access to a similar system and push the EU to integrate onto that?

A_Pandiculation

Herzlos wrote: »

The answer to any "they need us more than we need them" is a resounding no. Being that the Five Eyes seems to be an international agreement of which the EU is one Eye, our access to that isn't going to change. We may need to access EU internal security systems via the Five Eyes program rather than directly.

You really have no idea what Five Eyes is do you? Kindly explain how the EU is one of the five?

andrewf75

cogito wrote: »

Don't you think that with the UK being one of the Five Eyes, that the EU might need us more than we need them?

Yes quite possibly and I'm sure something will be sorted out on security. My point was only that these issues are hugely complex and its not about any desire to punish us. If we want out of everything, then the way I see it we have chosen that course, we can't then claim we are being punished.

One of the downsides to the EU is that as a huge bloc of countries its pretty inflexible and its not always simple to just bypass the rules. I think a lot of people on the leave side are a bit naiive in thinking just because something benefits both sides it will just happen. That’s not the way the world works and its not deliberate unwillingness to co-operate its just these things are bloody complicated!

Matt_L

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

You really have no idea what Five Eyes is do you? Kindly explain how the EU is one of the five?

:rotfl:

Herzlos is now frantically trawling through google...

ukcarper

andrewf75 wrote: »

Yes quite possibly and I'm sure something will be sorted out on security. My point was only that these issues are hugely complex and its not about any desire to punish us. If we want out of everything, then the way I see it we have chosen that course, we can't then claim we are being punished.

My problem is "EU was going to take a tough line with the UK on security" not really the actions of someone wanting a close relationship.

Herzlos

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

You really have no idea what Five Eyes is do you? Kindly explain how the EU is one of the five?

You're right, I thought they were.
Still, there's presumably nothing stopping the EU joining the Five Eyes or equivalent. They've presumably got security info sharing deals with the other 4 anyway.

Herzlos is now frantically trawling through google...

Apologies about my lack of encyclopedic knowledge on everything.



I wonder how many of you could name the Five Eyes members before it was used as an argument here...:j

BucksLady

So, a new Brexit Secretary. Well, I wish him lots of luck - he's going to need it!

andrewf75

ukcarper wrote: »

My problem is "EU was going to take a tough line with the UK on security" not really the actions of someone wanting a close relationship.

fair enough I agree, but neither are many of our actions or statements

A_Pandiculation

Herzlos wrote: »

Apologies about my lack of encyclopedic knowledge on everything.

Apologies for being mistaken about your pro-EU bias re: 'The answer to any "they need us more than we need them" is a resounding no. ' would be more appropriate.

Herzlos wrote: »

I wonder how many of you could name the Five Eyes members before it was used as an argument here...:j

I could. Cogito already has shown knowledge. So more than you imagine, I expect.