Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Filo25

Herzlos wrote: »

Exactly; "a Brexit" is easy, but the one promised by the Leave campaign and May tied herself too was impossible - the red lines were contradictory and left no room to maneuver.






WTO Brexit it is then, followed by grovelling to rejoin. Well done guys.

I actually favour a final referendum on the issue, put 3 options down on a Single Transferrable Vote basis.

No Deal, May's Deal and Remain, let the people decide, I actually think No Deal might well win, but I want the Brextremists to campaign for that and own the outcome, not continually blame someone else for everything that happens.

If they win, they are responsible for the outcome that comes afterwards, for all the bluff, bluster and nonsense, winning the vote would finish the UKIP and ERG wing of the tories for a generation.

movilogo

No Deal, May's Deal and Remain, let the people decide,

Those options would be wrong as it could split leave vote between 1st and 2nd options. This will give unfair advantage to 3rd Remain option.

People already decided to leave. So if 2nd referendum happens, remain should not be an option at all.

kabayiri

andrewf75 wrote: »

I don’t think it’s the limitations of the politicians, it’s just that delivering Brexit without crossing one or more of the “red lines” or causing major disruption to the economy is impossible. You can’t have everything, there are clear and very tough choices to be made. Yet May and others have promised everyone everything and refused to make those choices!
No surprise at all that it’s all unravelling.

It does indeed seem to be the Hotel California.

However, if a future Germany imploded, I feel pretty sure that all the red lines would dissolve into a faint pink.

Filo25

movilogo wrote: »

Those options would be wrong as it could split leave vote between 1st and 2nd options. This will give unfair advantage to 3rd Remain option.

People already decided to leave. So if 2nd referendum happens, remain should not be an option at all.

Single Transferrable vote means you rank the options in order of preference and the option with lowest vote drops out in round 1 and second preferences reallocated (already used in mayoral elections, NI assembly, assembly),

Yes we've already voted for unicorn Brexit which was all things to all people 2 years ago by a 52:48 majority.

No harm in getting the public's view on the final options on the table, assuming we still believe in democracy and that it isn't just a one-time deal.

For what its worth I think Hard Brexit loses in a straight vote against Theresa May's Deal, but has a fair chance of beating Remain in a head to head final round, so hard Brexiters be careful what you wish for.

andrewf75

movilogo wrote: »

Those options would be wrong as it could split leave vote between 1st and 2nd options. This will give unfair advantage to 3rd Remain option.

People already decided to leave. So if 2nd referendum happens, remain should not be an option at all.

Agree in principle, but in reality there won’t be another vote unless it has remain as an option!

Cakeguts

All this just shows is how undemocratic the EU is. It has shown in up for what it actually is. A dictatorship.

AlanP_2

Cakeguts wrote: »

All this just shows is how undemocratic the EU is. It has shown in up for what it actually is. A dictatorship.

All what shows you that? Please explain to us lesser mortals who rely on facts and debate to reach conclusions rather than visions, or dreams or whatever it is you rely upon.

Thanks

melanzana

The ECJ will hear a case for unilateral revocation by UK of A50 on 27/11. If the ruling is in favour (due before Christmas), the PM can unilaterally revoke A50 without agreement of 27.

I actually see this as a last resort, but it's possible if May survives long enough for the judgment to be delivered!

Otherwise we have Crash out, Hard Brexit. Fine but UK is not prepared for this at all, and has no idea of the fallout that will come from it. Even in the Commons this morning the level of ignorance of the facts of staying, going or whatever were mind boggling. Who is running the country?

To another poster who said there is no difference between the WA and staying in the EU. Well in fact there is a huge difference. It's called a Customs Union that allows free trade between UK and the EU with no further trade negotiations needed.

AND because Single Market is not a feature, (except for NI) freedom of movement is gone under the WA.

I thought that's what most Brexiters wanted - control of borders- well you have it + all the advantages of the EU.

The absolute hubris of some on here saying the EU is a dictatorship is just laughable, but I doubt our MPs and Cabinet are much better.

The WA solves the problem of the Irish Border, allows Free Trade intra EU, but free movement is not mandatory.

Now I know we will have to pay for this. But we owe 39bn anyway, and will pay something like 10bn for the CU privileges. That is chicken feed to the UK isn't it?

Sorry for going on so long, there is so much more I would like to politely contribute, but my fingers are getting tired on the keyboard. Need a few seconds rest!

A_Pandiculation

buglawton wrote: »

After a string of cabinet resignations this morning, French PM says "the removal of Theresa May as prime minister would increase the risk of no Brexit deal being reached, which would cause very serious problems for France, especially around trade across the Channel"

er... well, why didn't the EU negotiators offer a more plausible deal then?

Two reasons.

1 The EU don't believe the UK will just leave. They could well be in for a shock.

2 The EU powers-that-be are pooh-scared that others would want to leave.

If the EU is such a great thing why can it not afford to be more generous and less scared? They are pushing Italians further way too with the same attitude over their budget and many Italians dislike the interference even more than the most extremist Briexiter.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

It does indeed seem to be the Hotel California.

We can leave hotel EU any time we want. We just need to hand back the keys or continue paying for the room.