Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

A_Pandiculation

Herzlos wrote: »

Which number is bigger? Who needs who more?

So if all your wages now & future were to be confiscated as a tax that wouldn't matter to you because as a percentage of the total tax take your contribution is insignificant?

You try tell Wolfgang and hundreds of thousands of his pals that his job doesn't matter because some little EU know-it-all has decided that the bigger number is the only one that matters but he and his pals don't. And it gets better because each of Wolfgang's mates is a voter who is going to be very likely to join the populists because the EU doesn't care about them. Do you see yet where this could lead?

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

there are also those on the remain side who appear to hate their own country and believe that we would be better of with the status of a parish council subservient to the EU. I find it remarkable that these people seem to think that the EU is without fault.

I don't think there's a single remain poster on here that matches your straw man.

A_Pandiculation

Herzlos wrote: »

I don't think there's a single remain poster on here that matches your straw man.

cogito is right. Most leavers don't hate the EU, much though that obviously riles so many remainers. Personally I feel quite sorry for most EU citizens who have not only grown up being wrongly indoctrinated involuntarily but who are seeing such a b@llsup being made of such a number of major issues by the EU that it is risking implosion.

Also I don't think that some here understand what a straw man is which doesn't surprise me. Because they also seem not to understand how universities operate and so make their lack of educational attainment obvious. Plus there seems little point trying to debate with someone who is so obviously nothing more than confrontational. Why are so many remain posters here just so confrontational, are they scared of something? Can I suggest a dose of meditation because it's doing them no good.
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-fight-or-flight-response-2795194

Herzlos

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

So if all your wages now & future were to be confiscated as a tax that wouldn't matter to you because as a percentage of the total tax take your contribution is insignificant?

I'd be a lot more upset At a 45% tax than a 15% tax, but that's not the point you're trying to make.

Sure, for the people affected it'll suck and I'd be upset is Brexit cost me my job, but again, there's a vast difference between 45% of the population losing jobs than 15%. In the latter case we'd still be able to afford to look after the unemployed.

You try tell Wolfgang and hundreds of thousands of his pals that his job doesn't matter because some little EU know-it-all has decided that the bigger number is the only one that matters but he and his pals don't. And it gets better because each of Wolfgang's mates is a voter who is going to be very likely to join the populists because the EU doesn't care about them. Do you see yet where this could lead?

Brexit is bad for both sides and jobs will be lost on both sides. Both sides will blame the brexiteers.

which economy will recover best? Which one will have to blink first?

I'd rather be on the side with a 15% economic hit, whether my job was affected or not.

And before you suggest it; Germany is aware of the damage as is the German motoring industry. They've made it clear they won't let the EU project collapse over us.

Herzlos

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

cogito is right. Most leavers don't hate the EU, much though that obviously riles so many remainers.

There are certainly a lot of leavers that hate the EU, there are even some remainers that Leave the EU.


I don't know if there are any remainers that hate the UK and want to turn it into an EU vassal state; they want to do what's best for the UK and to prevent the UK becoming an EU vassal state (which is what Mays Brexit deal does).


Most remainers (as far as I can tell, and all of the ones on here) don't love the EU either, they accept it has flaws but think that it's better than Brexit, which is still undefined.


For example, I don't like my job, but I'm not going to leave because someone said I can get a better job. I'd want to have a concrete plan first.

Personally I feel quite sorry for most EU citizens who have not only grown up being wrongly indoctrinated involuntarily

You could say the same for those who've had decades of anti-EU propoganda.

but who are seeing such a b@llsup being made of such a number of major issues by the EU that it is risking implosion.

You could say the same of the UK, though I don't think the EU is at any risk of implosion.

Also I don't think that some here understand what a straw man is which doesn't surprise me.

Some won't, but cogito continually portraying remainers as something they aren't to try and make a point is a strawman - he's making a fictional opponent to attack.

Because they also seem not to understand how universities operate and so make their lack of educational attainment obvious.

Which is somewhat ironic, since one of the 2 distinguishing characteristics between Leave/Remain was that Remainers were more likely to go to university, thus should have a higher educational attainment and have more experience of university. That said, I spent more of my uni career in the bar than I did paying any attention to how the 'system works', I wasn't interested in that, just in learning and getting something out of it.

Plus there seems little point trying to debate with someone who is so obviously nothing more than confrontational. Why are so many remain posters here just so confrontational, are they scared of something? Can I suggest a dose of meditation because it's doing them no good.
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-fight-or-flight-response-2795194

Confrontation is on both sides and it's a very emotive subject so it's pretty much inevitable. Personally I get frustrated seeing people make the same well debunked claims on a regular basis, or spouting so much easily disproven lies. But I guess those on the other side probably feel the same way about me; nothing I say is valid because I'm an EU pawn (wittingly or not) and everything is debunked if you just look at the right sources in the right way.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

cogito continually portraying leavers as something they aren't to try and make a point is a strawman - he's making a fictional opponent to attack.

What on earth are you talking about? In what way do I portray leavers as something that they aren't and then attack them (fictionally or otherwise)? As a leaver, why would I launch an attack on my own team? It's the remainers on here who continually portray leavers as something that they are not - racists, ignorant, thick, gammons etc.

And just because some kid has got a degree in cultural studies at Luton and built up debts of £30000 doing so doesn't make him educated. It means that he's stupid.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

What on earth are you talking about? In what way do I portray leavers as something that they aren't and then attack them (fictionally or otherwise)? As a leaver, why would I launch an attack on my own team?

Good point, you were talking about remainers.

It's the remainers on here who continually portray leavers as something that they are not - racists, ignorant, thick, gammons etc.

It happens on both sides, to be fair.

And just because some kid has got a degree in cultural studies at Luton and built up debts of £30000 doing so doesn't make him educated. It means that he's stupid.

I didn't make any comment on intelligence, just on education. Some degrees are naturally worth more than others, but that's irrelevant to the points being made (I think).

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

I didn't make any comment on intelligence, just on education. Some degrees are naturally worth more than others, but that's irrelevant to the points being made (I think).

That's explained by age as most of the older voters don't have a degree never having the opportunity to go university.

wintersunshine

ukcarper wrote: »

I would say the majority for leave would be much higher if we had to accept those. I voted remain and but would vote leave joining Euro and losing control of our own monetary policy would be very bad for UK.

I voted Remain but would vote Leave next time if nobody comes up with a concrete plan to build more houses . I think that might be true for all 4 people in my family.

Remainer MPs never talk about housing. EVER.

And I hate Tony Blair. If he thinks it a good idea to stay in the EU that probably means it's only good for the rich bankers.

Cakeguts

ukcarper wrote: »

That's explained by age as most of the older voters don't have a degree never having the opportunity to go university.

Many of the old voters have been to technical collegs and the like so they are educated to what is now called degree level. You can call these qualifications what you like but the level that people get to hasn't changed all that has changed is that now they get there 3 years later.



It could be argued that someone who went to technical college and got to what is now called a degree at age 19 is more intelligent than someone who takes until they are 21 to get there.



What this means is that the older voters were likely to be better educated than the young ones and so had done more research into which way to vote. Rather than the young stupid ones with silly modern degrees in things like fashion and drama who worry about not being able to work abroad in the imaginary job that they are not going to get anyway because of the levels of unemployment among the young in Europe or who worry that they won't be able to go to Spain on holiday.