Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Eric_the_half_a_bee

Herzlos wrote: »

The whole "They need us more than we need them" rhetoric I haven't heard for a while is founded on the supposition that we're a big global player with associated influence.

We have the second largest trade deficit of any nation on the face of the earth. We are a major global player for any country that wishes to export.

cogito

Moby wrote: »

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html
Instead of continually bad mouthing views that don't agree with yours how about explaining why our fears are so misplaced?
Will May come back with a deal to live up to these statements? Can any one of you Brexiters answer the question about how much better things will be once we brexit? How will May's deal put us in a better place than we are in now?

You know, we keep asking remainers the very same questions. What kind of remain were they voting for? One in which the UK is eventually compelled to adopt Schengen, the euro, join the EU army ( the one that Clegg and his ilk dismissed as fantasy but Macron wants), etc. Why do these questions never get answered?

wunferall

Moby wrote: »

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html
Instead of continually bad mouthing views that don't agree with yours how about explaining why our fears are so misplaced?

That one's easy.
Your fears are directed towards something that has not happened.

Moby wrote: »

Will May come back with a deal to live up to these statements? Can any one of you Brexiters answer the question about how much better things will be once we brexit? How will May's deal put us in a better place than we are in now?

Tell us what the agreed deal is and then we can comment.
It's impossible to say what the effect of anything will be without first knowing in full what that "thing" is.

wunferall

Arklight wrote: »

How is their trade deal with Germany, France and Italy going? Oh wait they don't need one. Silly me.

Germany is in negative growth.
Italy is stagnant.
France is growing at one-third the rate of the UK.

On those statistics who most needs the trade?

wunferall

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Another nail in the coffin for the Brextremists vision of how Brexit should play out. Turns out many of the right wing lobbying 'think tanks' share the same building and coordinated their media efforts to attack the whistleblower who exposed illegal campaign spending. Seems likely they share the same dark money sources too...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/11/brexit-whistleblower-shahmir-sanni-taxpayers-alliance-concedes-it-launched-smears

:rotfl:
I do like the way you imply that Team Leave were supposedly alone in not quite "playing cricket" - and then insult huge numbers of the population with your derogatory description! (Not - it's uncalled for and unnecessary.)


What about the Information Commissioners Office investigation into how data was used, Hamish?
Are you denying what they say about Open Britain only days ago?

“We are still looking at how the Remain side of the referendum campaign handled personal data, including the electoral roll, and will be considering whether there are any breaches of data protection or electoral law requiring further action.”

https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/2260271/investigation-into-the-use-of-data-analytics-in-political-campaigns-final-20181105.pdf
See page 54 onwards.

How about how George Soros is actively funding (with at least hundreds of thousands of pounds this year alone) campaigns to stop Brexit?
https://nordic.businessinsider.com/anti-brexit-groupfunded-by-george-soros-to-launch-manifesto-for-keeping-britain-in-eu-2018-5?r=UK&IR=T

I like you could go on and on, but in a nutshell, it's probably best to stop throwing those stones.

Herzlos

Funding a political group with a manifesto to cancel brexit isn't dishonest; it's standard politics. As long as the manifesto matches their aims.

wunferall wrote: »

Germany is in negative growth.
Italy is stagnant.
France is growing at one-third the rate of the UK.

On those statistics who most needs the trade?

It's still us. We need the trade most.
What percentage of our trade is via the EU? 45%?
What percentage of the EUs trade is us? 15%?

Which number is bigger? Who needs who more?

melanzana

Masomnia wrote: »

I think it's mainly based on a caricature of Brexiters than anything of real substance, although the overall point that we're not a global superpower is correct. Do we really want to be? Does it matter?

The point about Ireland and the border is fine. But does the fact that Ireland has an unelected Frenchman doing negotiations over its border on its behalf show them to be a stronger nation with more influence? Personally I think the opposite.

Bet they are calling the shots themselves, with the assistance of a decent negotiator on the EU side. The "Frenchman" epithet tells me all I need to know about how UK views most things outside of the uk.

If only the UK had decent, well briefed, clued in negotiators. But they haven't. At all.

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

This is from the Vote Leave website, link in my post above..... and this formed part of their manifesto –


It also says:-


The brexiteers were explicitly promising that the UK could have all the benefits of being in a Customs Union with none of the obligations.
Tromking I take this promise to mean our international voice will be louder and our influence greater once we leave the EU. I'm also saying that brexiter promise wasn't worth the time it took to type it. Prove me wrong!

I think Vote Leave are putting forward the idea that Brexit would mean that the UK voice would continue to exist as a separate entity rather than be subsumed within an EU framework.
I heard the other day that there is an idea within the UN that to reflect geo-political changes, France and the UK would lose their separate permanent seats on the UN Security Council in favour of a single European Union seat. If the UK is losing influence then so is France it has to said.

Arklight

cogito wrote: »

You know, we keep asking remainers the very same questions. What kind of remain were they voting for? One in which the UK is eventually compelled to adopt Schengen, the euro, join the EU army ( the one that Clegg and his ilk dismissed as fantasy but Macron wants), etc. Why do these questions never get answered?

We got our way in 95% of votes.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

I have no problem with Schengen, a common EU defence force, or the euro (joining at a favourable rate). But then I don't see 1970 and Enoch Powell every time I look out of my window.

melanzana

Britain is an island state. NI is cut off from that, but has many connections, mostly good with ROI. The DUP are loopers wanting the worst for everyone in the name of the glorious Union, that honestly no one really cares about, they just get on with their lives.

How does anyone think the UK will be better off outside the tent. I just don't understand the hubris here.

But anyway, it will happen, we are leaving, and I for one am very unhappy about leaving the EU. I hope that is ok to say, since isolationism nowadays is a buzzword for Brexit.

There will be no advantages to leaving. None.