Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

cogito

phillw wrote: »

As always your delusion is in full force. The effect on sterling after the referendum is there for all to see. There is no way sterling will trade at even that low level in a no deal situation. We might limp along with brexit in name only situation, until the country tears itself apart. There are no other options.

You are clearly very confused about the way currencies work. Sterling may devalue or revalue according to conditions operating at the time. It cannot collapse i.e. go out of existence, because the UK has fiscal and political union. The euro has neither of these things and is permanently at risk of some event causing it to break up. It already has a history of inflicting tremendous damage on some of the countries which adopted it, Italy being the latest example and that is causing major consternation in Brussels. If Italy ignores the threats from Brussels and passes its budget, what are the EU going to do about it? Some cans just cannot be kicked down the road.

Italy is Greece x10 and Draghi cannot promise this time to do whatever it takes to save the euro as he simply doesn’t have enough firepower in his locker.

StevieJ

Sad when even Brexit supporting businessmen are not prepared to invest in the UK at the moment

Dyson, the UK-based company best known for its vacuum cleaners, has chosen to build its new electric car in Singapore.
The company will break ground on its new factory in Singapore later this year with the first car scheduled to roll off the production line in 2021.
Dyson said the decision was based on the availability of engineering talent, regional supply chains and proximity to some key target markets.
Cost was not a consideration.
Singapore is one of the most expensive territories in the world to do business and space for manufacturing is at a premium in the city state.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377

LHW99

So on the one hand you're criticising the EU for interfering in the sovereignty of your nation state (although like all you buddies you can't articulate a single instance of this happening)

IMO p. 10 of this paper from 2002 confirms the issue

https://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleuniversity/group/kepru/KEPRU%20WP%2014.pdf


"European integration has bought about fundamental change tothe politics of western
European states in a second manner: sub-state units have recently become incorporated into
the European project, inter aliavia the Committee of the Regions. In sum, as political
authority has migrated to supranational and sub-national levels, soWestern Europe has
witnessed a concomitant ‘hollowing out’ of the nation state, a growth of multiple political
identities and a clear trend towards multi-level governance. As long as the outputs of this
system of co-operation were largely positive, the predominantly intergovernmental manner in
which it operated was the subject of a ‘permissive consensus’. Yet since the Maastricht
Treaty, growing scepticism of the conduct of politicians is arguably nowhere more evident
than in respect of European integration. Though this may well berelated to a general decline
in economic outputs (not necessarily related to actions of the EU as such), it may also be
connected to a growing awareness of the implications for democratic transparency and
accountability of changes - such as those embodied in the SEA – to the European integration
process. "

ben501

phillw wrote: »

Democracy absolutely requires past decisions to be challenged. Farage said it was ok to challenge the result if there wasn't a clear majority.

I actually think we should go no deal and let people live through it for a while, there will be mass demonstrations not seen since the poll tax for a second referendum.

Sure, after we had had a referendum, voted to remain, and carried out the result (i.e: done nothing) Farage would campaign for another vote

At last you're seeing the light. Yes, if we have a second referendum after we have left the EU, with or without a deal, then the result of the previous referendum will have been respected. The people can have whatever then government is willing to let them have without going against the democratic process.

although...

phillw wrote: »

That is one argument against democratic process I guess, there is a responsibility on voters when making their decisions & if you can't cope with it then maybe you shouldn't have a vote.

That's a heck of a lot of remain voters ruled out. If you're suggesting that all those unable to cope with leaving shouldn't be allowed to vote again, then the odds of a referendum to rejoin would be significantly stacked against the re-join side.

Arklight

kabayiri wrote: »

Outside of the EU things will be challenging for a time, obviously.

Inside the EU, things will get increasingly challenging too.

Nobody from the Remain side has had any answer to the issue of rising numbers and limited infrastructure.

Hammond is looking at committing TENS of BILLIONS to just patch up the transport and other infrastructure.

The reason is obvious. We have not invested to keep up with the increased numbers coming here in numbers not seen before.

It kind of makes a mockery of any notion of the economic windfall of an individual migrant doesn't it.

If London does grow by another 2 million in a decade (or less), tell me where the additional housing and schooling and GP surgeries and buses are all going to come from.

The housing benefit bill will just go through the roof.

I have an answer to the "rising numbers".

Firstly try looking at the facts. Net EU migration from the EU this year was 87,000. Net immigration from outside the EU was 235,000.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

The UK is under no obligation to allow settlement to people who need housing benefit, or any other benefit, and is quite entitled under EU law to restrict immigration to those able to support themselves.

Or you can just read The Sun and keep regurgitating Brexit lies.

Arklight

LHW99 wrote: »

IMO p. 10 of this paper from 2002 confirms the issue

https://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleuniversity/group/kepru/KEPRU%20WP%2014.pdf


"European integration has bought about fundamental change tothe politics of western
European states in a second manner: sub-state units have recently become incorporated into
the European project, inter aliavia the Committee of the Regions. In sum, as political
authority has migrated to supranational and sub-national levels, soWestern Europe has
witnessed a concomitant ‘hollowing out’ of the nation state, a growth of multiple political
identities and a clear trend towards multi-level governance. As long as the outputs of this
system of co-operation were largely positive, the predominantly intergovernmental manner in
which it operated was the subject of a ‘permissive consensus’. Yet since the Maastricht
Treaty, growing scepticism of the conduct of politicians is arguably nowhere more evident
than in respect of European integration. Though this may well berelated to a general decline
in economic outputs (not necessarily related to actions of the EU as such), it may also be
connected to a growing awareness of the implications for democratic transparency and
accountability of changes - such as those embodied in the SEA – to the European integration
process. "

Except you've quoted that completely out of context from the findings of the paper, and even specifically from the paragraph before:

Many of the economic problems which western European states have been grappling
with derive from their growing interdependence and from globalisation. Though European
integration can be regarded as an example of globalisation, it can also be seen as an attempt
by European states to resist the negative consequences of the latter. According to this second
interpretation, European states mindful of the need to reach common solutions to common
problems have strengthened common structures...

LHW99

The paper is primarily looking at the changes in political parties and how they organise themselves and are perceived / supported by their members and wider public.
Any part may be "quoted out of context" hence the reason I supplied the link. It is also a part of a set of papers in the field of political science.
However the "hollowing out of the nation state", and the statement that you quoted:

Many of the economic problems which western European states have been grappling
with derive from their growing interdependence and from globalisation.

IMO reflect the issues many leave voters have with membership of the EU, albeit their opinions may be expressed in a more woolly fashion, and described in terms of their experiences rather than in a more academic abstracted fashion.

Arklight

LHW99 wrote: »

The paper is primarily looking at the changes in political parties and how they organise themselves and are perceived / supported by their members and wider public.
Any part may be "quoted out of context" hence the reason I supplied the link. It is also a part of a set of papers in the field of political science.
However the "hollowing out of the nation state", and the statement that you quoted:

IMO reflect the issues many leave voters have with membership of the EU, albeit their opinions may be expressed in a more woolly fashion, and described in terms of their experiences rather than in a more academic abstracted fashion.

Yes, and the sentence following that one, as in literally right after it.

Though European
integration can be regarded as an example of globalisation, it can also be seen as an attempt
by European states to resist the negative consequences of the latter.

If you want to experience life outside the EU, try experiencing losing your job in America.

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

Sad when even Brexit supporting businessmen are not prepared to invest in the UK at the moment

Market for the vehicles is in China.

Why pick on Dyson. Investment abroad has been underway for decades. Brexit or no Brexit. Asia has learnt from the West and is moving ahead.

Arklight

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Market for the vehicles is in China.

Why pick on Dyson. Investment abroad has been underway for decades. Brexit or no Brexit. Asia has learnt from the West and is moving ahead.

If only there was some way for small and medium sized Western nations to somehow join together and ensure they can remain relevant. Oh well...