Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Herzlos

Matt_L wrote: »

Its the remainers that now claim to know the minds of every leave voter.

Quite the opposite; it's Remainers who are saying that we can't know the minds of every leave voter, unlike ukcarper who does. And because we don't know the minds of the voters, why they actually voted, we don't know what we should be doing next. Did they vote for hard Brexit? EEA? Threatening to leave to strengthen our position whilst staying in? Because we keep getting down voted at the Eurovision?


We don't actually know the will of the people, and we're likely to upset most of them whilst trying to meet in some fabricated middle.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Quite the opposite; it's Remainers who are saying that we can't know the minds of every leave voter, unlike ukcarper who does. And because we don't know the minds of the voters, why they actually voted, we don't know what we should be doing next. Did they vote for hard Brexit? EEA? Threatening to leave to strengthen our position whilst staying in? Because we keep getting down voted at the Eurovision?


We don't actually know the will of the people, and we're likely to upset most of them whilst trying to meet in some fabricated middle.

I don't claim to know the mind of every leave voter, they voted for various reason but if you keep four freedoms and ECJ there's a very good chance they voted leave because of one or more of them.

Thrugelmir

ukcarper wrote: »

I don't claim to know the mind of every leave voter, they voted for various reason but if you keep four freedoms and ECJ there's a very good chance they voted leave because of one or more of them.

Likewise the EU would reject a soft Brexit for the same reasons. The rules are the rules. Otherwise other countries may wish to be out but still in the club.

StevieJ

Matt_L wrote: »

I voted leave a long with many others that I know and as far as im concerned leaving the SM and CU was made explicitly clear by both sides of the argument..

I have googled it and this best explains how these quotes were taken out of context..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs&t=2s

Ok you ignored my last quote, what about this?


.

While membership of the EEA plus EFTA is not a perfect scenario and hardly an ideal long-term relationship with the EU, 80% of Norwegian voters believe it is better for their country than membership and as Mr Paterson has pointed out so eloquently, it would be much better for the UK as well.

https://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/tag/owen-paterson/page/2/

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

I don't claim to know the mind of every leave voter, they voted for various reason but if you keep four freedoms and ECJ there's a very good chance they voted leave because of one or more of them.

There's a very good chance that many voted to stop "foreign control" or immigration, because they come up all the time. But we don't know how many of those concerns can be addressed inside or outside of the EU, nor what they'd be willing to sacrifice to stop them. Brexit was framed as "everything we have now, but no contribution, immigration or rule taking".
If I thought that was possible I'd vote Leave too, who wouldn't?

gfplux

Matt_L wrote: »

Well to make it simple, out means out, not half in or part in.....

Its the remainers that now claim to know the minds of every leave voter. Its the remainers that now claim we didn't want to be completely out, only partially out, or some wanted to be half out, some two thirds out and some completely out..

All leave voters I know and now most remain voters I know just want us to hurry up and get out, good-bye to it all...
....

That appears to be the problem. Voting for Brexit was the easy bit (even if it was wrong) You now need to pay attention and not be bored by it or wish “they would get on with it” You need to pay attention as it will effect YOUR life, your childrens life, your grandchildrens life. Today decisions are being made because you voted out. You need to know and understand what is being done in your NAME.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

There's a very good chance that many voted to stop "foreign control" or immigration, because they come up all the time. But we don't know how many of those concerns can be addressed inside or outside of the EU, nor what they'd be willing to sacrifice to stop them. Brexit was framed as "everything we have now, but no contribution, immigration or rule taking".
If I thought that was possible I'd vote Leave too, who wouldn't?

We will have more control on both those outside EU and inside the amount of control we have will decrease. I don't see many leave voters calling for another referendum and not every remain voter wants one.

andrewf75

Matt_L wrote: »

Well to make it simple, out means out, not half in or part in.........

There is no half in. Norway is 100% not in. Switzerland, Iceland, Turkey all 100% not in.

Not my opinion, just simple fact.

And by the way I oppose a second vote completely. I accept the result and wish we would get on with it. And by that I mean accepting that we need much more compromise on our red lines. It’s precisely the insistence on the hardest of hard Brexits, but without acknowledging the implications of that choice that is likely to force a second vote

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

We will have more control on both those outside EU and inside the amount of control we have will decrease. I don't see many leave voters calling for another referendum and not every remain voter wants one.

We'll have more control on immigration outside the EU, sure. But we'll still need the same number of legal immigrants in the country, and none of the problems perceived to be caused by immigrants will be fixed. For the racists it could be even worse as white, Christian Eastern Europeans could be getting replaced by brown Moslems from further afield. Having a 'not a border' at Eire could also mean more illegal immigrants getting in.



We'll likely have less control over rules and regulations because we're going to have to satisfy the EU's rules if we want an FTA with them. But we won't have any say in the creation of them.

We might be able to have different rules for different destinations but that's a logistical nightmare and would likely also rule out any kind of customs deal.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

We'll have more control on immigration outside the EU, sure. But we'll still need the same number of legal immigrants in the country, and none of the problems perceived to be caused by immigrants will be fixed. For the racists it could be even worse as white, Christian Eastern Europeans could be getting replaced by brown Moslems from further afield. Having a 'not a border' at Eire could also mean more illegal immigrants getting in.



We'll likely have less control over rules and regulations because we're going to have to satisfy the EU's rules if we want an FTA with them. But we won't have any say in the creation of them.

We might be able to have different rules for different destinations but that's a logistical nightmare and would likely also rule out any kind of customs deal.

We will have more control over immigration but whether we need the same numbers as now is open to discussion. If we have a FTA with EU the goods we export to them will have to confirm to thier rules but not on good sold elsewhere or here.