Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

Yet she's the one who got you your much desired parliamentary sovereignty, and we're not governed by a foreign power (like you could argue the Scots are, since they can't materially change any regulations that come out of Westminster). We were leading a group of countries with some shared rules, which we helped make and generally agreed with.

'We' being successive governments which acceded to these rules without bothering to find out whether or not the electorate were fine about it.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

In other words, it's new EU regulations which are the cause of the problem right?

How dare anyone try to improve car emissions!
However, inside the EU or not we'll still build and buy EU compliant vehicles, but get no say on what EU compliance means. Great, huh?

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

'We' being successive governments which acceded to these rules without bothering to find out whether or not the electorate were fine about it.

Should we run every decision from parliament by the electorate?

andrewf75

Sapphire wrote: »

how the unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats behave towards a sovereign nation that legitimately has decided to leave. It was a very unpleasant surprise to me, which I fear has tainted my view of continental Europe and made me look to places outside Europe altogether for both leisure and work. I'd always been under the impression that Britain was in a trade organisation, not in any kind of political one. I truly don't know how it was legally possible for the actual aims of the EU to be hidden from the British people, and for them not to have been given a vote on such a key issue of sovereignty before the signing of any 'treaties'.

What do you mean how they behave? They are simply protecting the integrity of their single market, the one we are part of and helped design and are now pretending we don’t understand! I do respect arguments for leaving, but this attitude that they are somehow punishing us for leaving is just ridiculous and embarrassing. And how are these “bureaucrats” unaccountable. They represent member governments and every other sensible country seems happy with them. And tainting your view of conitinental Europe?! Its really quite hard to remain proud of being British when people are coming out with stuff like that. On the whole, the odd provocative tweet aside, the EU side have behaving far more respectfully than the British side.

qwert_yuiop

Herzlos wrote: »

Without the GFA holding us back it'd be a lot easier.

So let’s bring in a hard border between England and Scotland?

Sapphire

andrewf75 wrote: »

What do you mean how they behave? And how are these “bureaucrats” unaccountable.

By 'how they behave' I mean many things, among them their refusal to negotiate at all, when they should be negotiating according to their own rules, in order to get the best outcome for both the EU and the UK.

The EU bureaucrats are clearly unaccountable to any of the populations in the countries that are members of the EU. They are unelected. I have no idea who these people are and they do not need to propagate their aims before an election by the populations of different sovereign countries, as happens in democratic elections in sovereign nations. The people have no control over their actions, and cannot boot them out if they are dissatisfied with them, or if they disagree with their political views and activities. What would happen if the views of this organisation went too far to the right or to the left? Ultimately, what would be the point of national governments when they have to abide by 'rules' set by some organisation abroad? How is that democratic? You say the EU 'are simply protecting the integrity of their single market', making it sound as though the decision to vote leave was purely to do with economics. It was not. The EU is attempting to create a political 'super-state', which no one in the United Kingdom was given the opportunity to vote to be a part of. How was signing us up to such a thing even legal, or democratic?

mrginge

Herzlos wrote: »

Should we run every decision from parliament by the electorate?

#peoplesvote

Joan_number_1_2

Moby wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/04/uk-car-sales-tumble-brexit-emissions-tests-stock-markets-dollar-italy-business-live
There you go..latest figures. I'm sure there's some excuse though!

All you had to do was read your own link.

...the SMMT said new and more rigorous emissions testing rules created supply problems and a backlog of deliveries as car manufacturers suffered delays in getting their cars approved....

This from The Spectator clarifies things though maybe we could rename the article to "Why is Moby blaming falling car sales on Brexit?"

As the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) makes clear, the reason for the slump is the introduction of the new harmonised light vehicle test procedure (WLTP) – which replaces the former, discredited system on which Volkswagen admitted cheating. Ahead of the introduction of the new rules in September, manufacturers had a stock of old, non WLTP-compliant vehicles to shift, with the result there were plenty of good deals. In August, indeed, sales were 23.1 per cent higher than they were in the previous August. Come September, however, and manufacturers had a dearth of vehicles they could sell. They have been struggling to make some models pass the new tests and were unable to sell them. Hence the fall in sales – something which has been experienced all over the EU, not just in nasty, racist, Brexit Britain.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/why-is-the-bbc-blaming-falling-car-sales-on-brexit/

Filo25

Sapphire wrote: »

By 'how they behave' I mean many things, among them their refusal to negotiate at all, when they should be negotiating according to their own rules, in order to get the best outcome for both the EU and the UK.

The EU bureaucrats are clearly unaccountable to any of the populations in the countries that are members of the EU. They are unelected. I have no idea who these people are and they do not need to propagate their aims before an election by the populations of different sovereign countries, as happens in democratic elections in sovereign nations. The people have no control over their actions, and cannot boot them out if they are dissatisfied with them, or if they disagree with their political views and activities. What would happen if the views of this organisation went too far to the right or to the left? Ultimately, what would be the point of national governments when they have to abide by 'rules' set by some organisation abroad? How is that democratic? You say the EU 'are simply protecting the integrity of their single market', making it sound as though the decision to vote leave was purely to do with economics. It was not. The EU is attempting to create a political 'super-state', which no one in the United Kingdom was given the opportunity to vote to be a part of. How was signing us up to such a thing even legal, or democratic?

I am sorry to say they are negotiating with us, they just aren't telling us things that anyone in the UK wants to hear.

Just to be clear a duty to negotiate, is not a duty to capitulate to anything the other side wants.

Both sides have set out their redlines now and they look pretty incompatible for achieving a meaningful deal at present.

Joan_number_1_2

Filo25 wrote: »

I am sorry to say they are negotiating with us, they just aren't telling us things that anyone in the UK wants to hear

Saying "no" continually is not negotiating.
Though perhaps that is how we (the UK) should "negotiate" when they make their final offer if it is still not good enough.