Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Joan_number_1_2

Moby wrote: »

There was nothing in the post worth reading TBH

We could do tit-for-tat all day but promulgating Project Fear as you are trying to do didn't work in the past and it won't work here either.

Filo25

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

So much for your assertion of being "a normal one".
What populism do we have here in the UK?
Think carefully before replying and consider Germany's Afd; Italy's 5Star; Geert Wilders & his Party for Freedom in the Netherlands; Poland;'s Law & Justice party; etc. etc. etc.

Be grateful for Brexit.
It killed off populism here.

Labour reinvented themselves as a left wing populist party, they even said as much themselves.

The Tories seem to have given up on being the party of business (judging by some of the kind words Johnson and others had for the business community) and seem to have gone down some weird nationalist populist direction as well, even getting a lot of entryism from former UKIP members now.

Brexit itself is the ultimate populist endeavour, but even that isn't enough for some of the crazies, it has to be the purest form of Brexit possible or the screams of betrayal start again.

Politics in Britain is in a pretty sad state right now, something it shares with most of the Western World at present.

Joan_number_1_2

Filo25 wrote: »

Labour reinvented themselves as a left wing populist party, they even said as much themselves.

The Tories seem to have given up on being the party of business (judging by some of the kind words Johnson and others had for the business community) and seem to have gone down some weird nationalist populist direction as well, even getting a lot of entryism from former UKIP members now.

Brexit itself is the ultimate populist endeavour, but even that isn't enough for some of the crazies, it has to be the purest form of Brexit possible or the screams of betrayal start again.

Politics in Britain is in a pretty sad state right now, something it shares with most of the Western World at present.

What utter rubbish.
By your assertion then the other 86% of countries on this planet not in the EU are populist!
:rotfl:
In which case what exactly does that make the EU?

andrewf75

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

So much for your assertion of being "a normal one".
What populism do we have here in the UK?
Think carefully before replying and consider Germany's Afd; Italy's 5Star; Geert Wilders & his Party for Freedom in the Netherlands; Poland;'s Law & Justice party; etc. etc. etc.

Be grateful for Brexit.
It killed off populism here.

Brexit is the ultimate in populism.

andrewf75

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

What utter rubbish.
By your assertion then the other 86% of countries on this planet not in the EU are populist!
:rotfl:
In which case what exactly does that make the EU?

That's a very bizarre assertion. No other country anywhere has done anything like brexit that I can think of. I respect some of the arguments for brexit but as a whole it's just an uncoordinated rebellion. Populism is on the rise everywhere in different forms.

Joan_number_1_2

andrewf75 wrote: »

Brexit is the ultimate in populism.

If so, rather populist than cult.

Joan_number_1_2

andrewf75 wrote: »

That's a very bizarre assertion. No other country anywhere has done anything like brexit that I can think of. I respect some of the arguments for brexit but as a whole it's just an uncoordinated rebellion.

Then get on to Filo25 who suggests that anyone not wanting to be in the EU is populist.

gfplux

Everyone posting here must have listened to Theresa Mays dancing queen speech.
Probably a few have read it in detail more than once.
Today we have a reply from the EU.
It makes interesting reading. However it has to be read to understand the EUs position.
If not read, you can still post about the EUs position. It has not stopped posters in the past.


PRESS: European Council
4/10/2018
Remarks by President Donald Tusk after his meeting with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar

As you know, I always try to present the EU's position honestly, and without beating about the bush. Telling the truth, even if difficult and unpleasant, is the best way of showing respect for partners. That's how it was in Salzburg, and that's also how we will work in the coming days.
First of all, we want to focus on practical and realistic ways of minimising the damage caused by Brexit, on both sides of the channel. Emotional arguments that stress the issue of dignity sound attractive, but they do not facilitate agreement. Let us remember that every actor in this process has their dignity, and confrontation in this field will not lead to anything good.
Second, the task of the EU's negotiators is to defend the interests of the European Union as a whole, and of all the 27 member states. We very much regret that the UK has decided to leave, and we hope for the best relationship in future, but no-one can expect that, because of Brexit, the EU will give up its fundamental values and key interests. Let me make this clear: the EU wants a relationship with the UK that is as close and special as possible. From the very beginning, the EU offer has been not just a Canada deal, but a Canada+++ deal. Much further-reaching on trade, on internal security and on foreign policy cooperation. This is a true measure of respect. And this offer remains in place. The EU is serious about getting the best possible deal. Even though we haven’t changed our minds that the consequences of Brexit will be negative, for both sides.
Third, in respecting our partners, we expect the same in return. Comparing the European Union to the Soviet Union is as unwise as it is insulting. The Soviet Union was about prisons and gulags, borders and walls, violence against citizens and neighbours. The European Union is about freedom and human rights, prosperity and peace, life without fear, it is about democracy and pluralism; a continent without internal borders or walls. As the President of the European Council and someone who spent half of my life in the Soviet Bloc, I know what I'm talking about. The Soviet spirit is still alive, as demonstrated by the attack in Salisbury. You will know best where to find this spirit. Rather not in Brussels. And I am sure you will also remember who was the first to declare full solidarity with the UK at that critical moment. Unfortunately, that was not a unique incident. Today, the Dutch and UK governments informed about a cyber attack against the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in the Hague, which was carried out by Kremlin intelligence services. On behalf of the EU, I want to fully condemn this attack and express our complete solidarity with those affected. I will put the issue of cyber security on the agenda of the next European Council.
Today, after my long discussion with my guest, the Taoiseach, I want to say that the EU is united behind Ireland and the need to preserve the Northern Ireland peace process. Despite the UK government's rejection of the original EU backstop proposal, we will not give up seeking a workable solution that fully respects the Good Friday Agreement as well as the integrity of the Single Market and the Customs Union.
Unacceptable remarks that raise the temperature will achieve nothing except wasting more time. What needs to be done is maximum progress by the October European Council. I was party leader myself, for fifteen years, and I know what the rules of party politics are. But now, once the Tory party conference is over, we should get down to business. Thank you.

Herzlos

Well said. Clear and firm. Can anyone from the UK government provide any statement of that calibre?

Herzlos

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

So when the UK powers ahead whilst the EU wilts under the weight of increasing populism, continued indecision and increasing federalism will that too be the responsibility of Brexiters!
Yay.
Just to be clear: in that event would any belligerent remainers admit their previously erroneous opinions?

I'm probably a belligerent remainer but I want Brexit to be as much of a success as you do. I just don't see how it's possible despite doing my best to figure out how.
If making trade harder somehow brings us prosperity then I'll be celebrating with you and will happily accept I was wrong. But until that happens I'll continue to ask difficult questions like why and what's the point.