Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Filo25

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

Saying "no" continually is not negotiating.
Though perhaps that is how we (the UK) should "negotiate" when they make their final offer if it is still not good enough.

If we continually ask for things they have already previously said no to, I imagine they will keep saying no quite a lot.

Joan_number_1_2

Filo25 wrote: »

If we continually ask for things they have already previously said no to, I imagine they will keep saying no quite a lot.

Great.
In which case you can look forward to "Goodbye EU, whistle for your dosh and WTO here we come".

That after all is how most things are done; if you don't like the deal you walk away.

Filo25

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

Great.
In which case you can look forward to "Goodbye EU, whistle for your dosh and WTO here we come".

That after all is how most things are done; if you don't like the deal you walk away.

Indeed it is, I'm not sure many people will find a no deal Brexit as delightful as they seem to think it is now, but we live in a democracy and if that is what people want that is what we will get, not that anyone will ever take responsibility for the economic shambles that follows mind you, it would all be the fault of the intransigent EU or Remoaners no doubt..

Just to be clear if anyone is daft enough to think No Deal is a good outcome you own what happens afterwards, don't come on here scapegoating everyone else.

Joan_number_1_2

Filo25 wrote: »

Indeed it is, I'm not sure many people will find a no deal Brexit as delightful as they seem to think it is now, but we live in a democracy and if that is what people want that is what we will get, not that anyone will ever take responsibility for the economic shambles that follows mind you, it would all be the fault of the intransigent EU or Remoaners no doubt..

Just to be clear if anyone is daft enough to think No Deal is a good outcome you own what happens afterwards, don't come on here scapegoating everyone else.

So when the UK powers ahead whilst the EU wilts under the weight of increasing populism, continued indecision and increasing federalism will that too be the responsibility of Brexiters!
Yay.
Just to be clear: in that event would any belligerent remainers admit their previously erroneous opinions?

Filo25

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

So when the UK powers ahead whilst the EU wilts under the weight of increasing populism, continued indecision and increasing federalism will that too be the responsibility of Brexiters!
Yay.
Just to be clear: in that event would any belligerent remainers admit their previously erroneous opinions?

I can't speak to any belligerent Remainers, but as a pretty normal one, I would, not that I will be holding my breath on that outcome being likely.

On a side note. given the state of UK politics at present I wouldn't be crowing too much about populism in the EU, we have enough of that here

Moby

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

All you had to do was read your own link.



This from The Spectator clarifies things though maybe we could rename the article to "Why is Moby blaming falling car sales on Brexit?"


https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/why-is-the-bbc-blaming-falling-car-sales-on-brexit/

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/04/uk-car-sales-tumble-brexit-emissions-tests-stock-markets-dollar-italy-business-live?page=with:block-5bb5c6fee4b0b8830be68fcb
UK auto industry has "plunged into a deep canyon"

Alex Buttle, director, car buying comparison website Motorway.co.uk, says the 20% plunge in car sales is “astonishing”.
He fears that Brexit uncertainly will hurt the industry in the months ahead:

“We are now entering a crucial and unprecedented period for the car industry, as the next new number plate will be March 2019 when the UK is due to leave the EU. It’s likely to be a rollercoaster ride for new car sales figures for the foreseeable future, but it feels like we have just plunged into a deep canyon.
“Brexit will start to weigh much heavier on the shoulders of the car industry over the coming months, particularly if a deal isn’t thrashed out with the EU. And either way, we don’t really know how consumers are going to react.
“If already fragile consumer confidence is fractured by a no-deal scenario, then we are likely to see many big ticket purchases like new cars put on hold.
“The car industry, just like any other business sector, needs certainty, and Brexit squabbles mean we are way off finding any sense of that at the moment.”

Moby

Sapphire wrote: »

By 'how they behave' I mean many things, among them their refusal to negotiate at all, when they should be negotiating according to their own rules, in order to get the best outcome for both the EU and the UK.

The EU bureaucrats are clearly unaccountable to any of the populations in the countries that are members of the EU. They are unelected. I have no idea who these people are and they do not need to propagate their aims before an election by the populations of different sovereign countries, as happens in democratic elections in sovereign nations. The people have no control over their actions, and cannot boot them out if they are dissatisfied with them, or if they disagree with their political views and activities. What would happen if the views of this organisation went too far to the right or to the left? Ultimately, what would be the point of national governments when they have to abide by 'rules' set by some organisation abroad? How is that democratic? You say the EU 'are simply protecting the integrity of their single market', making it sound as though the decision to vote leave was purely to do with economics. It was not. The EU is attempting to create a political 'super-state', which no one in the United Kingdom was given the opportunity to vote to be a part of. How was signing us up to such a thing even legal, or democratic?

The bureaucrats are appointed by the member Governments. They serve a term and then retire. The Commission is accountable to the parliament and of course we elect MEP's. We have exactly the same bureaucracy through our civil servants surely??? I understand the point about them being another unnecessary layer of bureaucracy that brexiteers wanted rid of but it's wrong to say they are unaccountable and also the whole point of the EU was to develop a common political system and shared democratic values across political boundaries for the common benefit of European states. You know the history of Europe over the centuries.....endemic dispute, strife etc. The EU was set up to address this out of the ashes of WW2. Also without the EU the Eastern European states could very well now be a lot less democratic and/or under Putin's control. I'm sick of nationalism, boundaries and requiring a visa for this and that....the EU was a way of achieving shared values and a common democratic purpose. I don't like nationalism, it depresses me...it's always against someone or something and thrives on conflict. I'm Welsh and don't like Plaid for that reason. I hate the SNP for the same reason....I dont think you can support brexit while being against Scottish independence. That's inconsistent because you are dismissing the same aspirations of sovereignty to them while claiming those same aspirations as your reason for rejecting the EU.

andrewf75

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

Great.
In which case you can look forward to "Goodbye EU, whistle for your dosh and WTO here we come".

That after all is how most things are done; if you don't like the deal you walk away.

Yeah, but most deals are also done by making reasonable offers. We are IN the single market, its OUR rules, we know exactly how things work so the very least we can do is come up with a vaguely sensible offer, but we can’t because the Brexiteers still won’t take responsibility for things like the Irish border. There are 3 clear options: border across Ireland, border in the sea or we stay in the single market and avoid a border. The negotiation is about the details, but first that broad choice has to be made and we are refusing to do so! That’s why the EU appears to just keep saying no. The Irish border is a hugely problematic issue but we knew about that. You can’t make a huge decision like Brexit and expect there to be no consequences and just blame someone else for it. There is no way out from making that choice.

Yes we could walk away tell them to whistle and be the laughing stock of the world, if we aren’t already.

Joan_number_1_2

Filo25 wrote: »

On a side note. given the state of UK politics at present I wouldn't be crowing too much about populism in the EU, we have enough of that here

So much for your assertion of being "a normal one".
What populism do we have here in the UK?
Think carefully before replying and consider Germany's Afd; Italy's 5Star; Geert Wilders & his Party for Freedom in the Netherlands; Poland;'s Law & Justice party; etc. etc. etc.

Be grateful for Brexit.
It killed off populism here.

Joan_number_1_2

andrewf75 wrote: »

Yeah, but most deals are also done by making reasonable offers. We are IN the single market, its OUR rules, we know exactly how things work so the very least we can do is come up with a vaguely sensible offer, but we can’t because the Brexiteers still won’t take responsibility for things like the Irish border. There are 3 clear options: border across Ireland, border in the sea or we stay in the single market and avoid a border. The negotiation is about the details, but first that broad choice has to be made and we are refusing to do so! That’s why the EU appears to just keep saying no. The Irish border is a hugely problematic issue but we knew about that. You can’t make a huge decision like Brexit and expect there to be no consequences and just blame someone else for it. There is no way out from making that choice.

Yes we could walk away tell them to whistle and be the laughing stock of the world, if we aren’t already.

You got that all wrong.
It's not up to the UK to make offers.
Read Article 50.
It's up to the EU to come to an agreement.
Their rules say so.
As for " laughing stock of the world" don't you realise that the only ones that really care are the EU?
Nobody else gives a damn.
If you think they do you're only following the line taken by a few disgruntled sheeple.