Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Doesn't the Norway plan mean accepting FOM and EU courts which would not appease the 52% who vote leave.

They voted to leave, not to end free movement.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

That shows that since last July, more people have wanted to Remain than Leave. Was that the point you wanted to make? Are you actually agreeing with me?

The point I'm making is there has not been much change since Referendum was announced and if you believe the polls it's remain has started to fall and leave is rising.

Enterprise_1701C

StevieJ wrote: »

We could have followed the Norway model, this would satisfy the binary choice in the referendum and also appease the 48% who voted to remain. The fact that the referendum was so close may suggest that this was what the majority actually voted for, as there was no description of what 'post brexit' would look like.


So what did BoJo have to say about it after the Brexit vote?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/world/europe/boris-johnson-brexit-leaders-eu.html

You cannot read any such thing into the results. Just because it was close does not mean that the people that voted Leave didn't really want to leave but just gently depart.

The choice was Leave or Remain, I voted to Remain, but I understood that those voting Leave wanted to leave, not half leave, not leave by about 5%, but leave, full stop.

Herzlos

We still don't know what Leaving means, but it's not what Leave was promising the day before the referendum. That's why we need to ask the public.


Of those that voted Leave, we've no idea which ones wanted a WTO, or a Norway, or some more allowances or anything in between. We can't assume they all want the hardest of Brexits.

ukcarper wrote: »

The point I'm making is there has not been much change since Referendum was announced and if you believe the polls it's remain has started to fall and leave is rising.

The trend still shows Leave going downwards and Remain going upwards.

StevieJ

ukcarper wrote: »

Doesn't the Norway plan mean accepting FOM and EU courts which would not appease the 52% who vote leave.

I

EU courts on EU internal market rules only, what is the problem with that? Isn't that what the Chequers plan is trying to do? FOM most of the ones that want to come are already here, and will allowed to stay. Anyway as has already been pointed out we have more control over immigration than many people think i.e. 3/6 month rule for finding a job then deportation, and not being a member of the Schengen area.

StevieJ

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

You cannot read any such thing into the results. Just because it was close does not mean that the people that voted Leave didn't really want to leave but just gently depart.

The choice was Leave or Remain, I voted to Remain, but I understood that those voting Leave wanted to leave, not half leave, not leave by about 5%, but leave, full stop.

I had never heard of the Norway model until leave campaigners put it up as an option ('Look at Noway, they are doing OK'). BoJo was still quoting the Switzerland model over the previous weekend as a successful example. Who is to say that a proportion of the population didn't vote out expecting that? I am pretty sure that 52% of the voting public didn't vote for a ''no deal' brexit with all the 'cake and eat it' promises they had heard.

Some Eurosceptics advocate a Brexit and a Norway-style relationship with the EU. We look at six key questions about this model

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/28/the-norway-option-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-britain

andrewf75

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

You cannot read any such thing into the results. Just because it was close does not mean that the people that voted Leave didn't really want to leave but just gently depart.

The choice was Leave or Remain, I voted to Remain, but I understood that those voting Leave wanted to leave, not half leave, not leave by about 5%, but leave, full stop.

But there is no such thing as half-leaving. Norway is 100% not a member!

The choice was leave or remain. *ANY* form of leaving should be valid. I’m a remainer but one who completely accepts the result. The one thing that really angers me is the way the result has been hijacked by the hardliners to mean that anything other than a hard Brexit is not a Brexit at all. And these same people were the ones saying stuff like "only a madman would propose leaving the single market"

I completely get that many leave voters want no freedom of movement, no more EU rules etc, but they also want the single market benefits to continue and no border in Ireland! The leave campaign promised everything and that isn’t possible so something has to give.

A Norway model would satisfy the largest proportion of the population and that’s probably hard to dispute.

That said, I’d rather a Canada style deal than a Chequers fudge. If we’re going to retain close ties then we should do it properly and honestly with a Norway style relationship.

StevieJ

andrewf75 wrote: »

But there is no such thing as half-leaving. Norway is 100% not a member!

The choice was leave or remain. *ANY* form of leaving should be valid. I’m a remainer but one who completely accepts the result. The one thing that really angers me is the way the result has been hijacked by the hardliners to mean that anything other than a hard Brexit is not a Brexit at all. And these same people were the ones saying stuff like "only a madman would propose leaving the single market"

I completely get that many leave voters want no freedom of movement, no more EU rules etc, but they also want the single market benefits to continue and no border in Ireland! The leave campaign promised everything and that isn’t possible so something has to give.

A Norway model would satisfy the largest proportion of the population and that’s probably hard to dispute.

That said, I’d rather a Canada style deal than a Chequers fudge. If we’re going to retain close ties then we should do it properly and honestly with a Norway style relationship.

The irony is that it was Brexiteers that were promoting the Norway model with the Remainers opposing it

andrewf75

StevieJ wrote: »

The irony is that it was Brexiteers that were promoting the Norway model with the Remainers opposing it

Well, they basically won the vote by advocating the best bits of all the possible relationships with no mention of the downsides!

Sapphire

andrewf75 wrote: »

Well, they basically won the vote by advocating the best bits of all the possible relationships with no mention of the downsides!

Nonsense.

Of the people I know who voted to leave (including myself), we voted to do so principally due to the major issue of sovereignty, which is conveniently overlooked by the schills who scream 'racists' to drown out the sovereignty issue each time it is mentioned. Moreover, leave won despite the remainers' scare tactics and forecasts of immediate armageddon should we vote to leave.

I have never heard anything from British remainers with regard to their viewpoint on maintaining our sovereignty as a nation. However, having noted the stance of the bureaucrats in Brussels since our vote, I am even more convinced that voting leave was the right thing to do, and I don't know anyone who has changed their minds on this issue.