Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

So now you resorts to those old lines if you want to convince leave voters to remain calling them thick racists is not the way to do it.

Well someone who can't stand the idea of a foreigner having some control over them is xenophobic, it's a fact. I'm not going to pretend just because they might get upset, I don't think they are that big a majority & there is no way they are ever going to change their mind. They deserve to be ignored anyway, or put on a boat to "bongo bongo land" where they can see how they like it.

The rest of the voters were conned into it by sweet talking liars. I'm not saying that makes them thick, it makes them human.

ukcarper wrote: »

Those MPs voted remain for one of two reasons they were so out of touch or they didn't have backbone to stand up for what they believe.

No, they believed that a fairly fought referendum would leave us still in the EU. I agree with them. It's a pity we weren't given the opportunity.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Well someone who can't stand the idea of a foreigner having some control over them is xenophobic, it's a fact. I'm not going to pretend just because they might get upset, I don't think they are that big a majority & there is no way they are ever going to change their mind. They deserve to be ignored anyway, or put on a boat to "bongo bongo land" where they can see how they like it.

The rest of the voters were conned into it by sweet talking liars. I'm not saying that makes them thick, it makes them human.



No, they believed that a fairly fought referendum would leave us still in the EU. I agree with them. It's a pity we weren't given the opportunity.

That a funny definition of xenophobia

You are obviously as out of touch as MPs were and still are.

I'm extremely disillusioned to many politicians are pushing thier own agenda and playing politics and very few seem to actually trying to reach a acceptable compromise.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

That a funny definition of xenophobia

nope.
"noun
dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries."

Different parts of the UK have different views, but the leavers aren't trying to break away from them. They only want to break away from people from other countries. The fear is disproportionate to the reality, it could be a sign of mental health problems. It's a pity we've systematically cut funding to mental health services.

ukcarper wrote: »

You are obviously as out of touch as MPs were and still are.

If I have to be xenophobic to be in touch with the people of the UK, then I am proud to say I am not. I think we can do better than this, I am leading by example.

ukcarper wrote: »

I'm extremely disillusioned to many politicians are pushing thier own agenda and playing politics and very few seem to actually trying to reach a acceptable compromise.

It's a minority of MPs. Bojo, Mogg and the euro sceptics. The rest want a compromise, which might not be what a lot of leave voters think they voted for but they may have to compromise.

The leave voters have already been saying they didn't vote to be poorer, or out of work. it will be impossible to deliver everything they want. The 27 other EU members didn't vote to let us have our cake and eat it.

buglawton

I'm baffled. May is on TV still promulgating the Chequers plan.
Yet it's been outright pre-rejected by our EU overlords!

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

nope.
"noun
dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries."

Different parts of the UK have different views, but the leavers aren't trying to break away from them. They only want to break away from people from other countries. The fear is disproportionate to the reality, it could be a sign of mental health problems. It's a pity we've systematically cut funding to mental health services.



If I have to be xenophobic to be in touch with the people of the UK, then I am proud to say I am not. I think we can do better than this, I am leading by example.



It's a minority of MPs. Bojo, Mogg and the euro sceptics. The rest want a compromise, which might not be what a lot of leave voters think they voted for but they may have to compromise.

The leave voters have already been saying they didn't vote to be poorer, or out of work. it will be impossible to deliver everything they want. The 27 other EU members didn't vote to let us have our cake and eat it.

You really have a blinkered view and seem to not be able to understate the difference between hating people from other countries and not wanting to be ruled by them.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

You really have a blinkered view and seem to not be able to understate the difference between hating people from other countries and not wanting to be ruled by them.

I think you have a blinkered view. People don't want to be labelled xenophobic, so they pretend they aren't while saying they don't want to be ruled by foreigners.

We aren't "ruled" by them, there is a democratic process that all countries are involved with.

If you hate being part of that democratic process because they are foreigners, then you are xenophobic. Fact, end of, etc. All you're doing is normalising xenophobia.

That might be the new normal, but I'm not going along with it. You can choose to, I respect myself too much.

buglawton wrote: »

I'm baffled. May is on TV still promulgating the Chequers plan.
Yet it's been outright pre-rejected by our EU overlords!

Hasn't it been pre-rejected by our British overlords too? And the DUP are looking likely to collapse the government.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

There's plenty of evidence of a swing. Sure it's polling but there's no other way to gauge public opinion and they've been pretty consistent.

What evidence? A few opinion polls? Like the ones that predicted a vote for remain in 2016?

You've heard about the shy tories who when approached for their voting intentions claim to be don't knows or something else. What about shy leavers who deny their intentions because they are sick of being labelled ignorant racist bigots but in the secrecy of the polling booth put their cross in the leave box.

If you want another referendum, bring it on.

buglawton

phillw wrote: »

.....
Hasn't it been pre-rejected by our British overlords too? And the DUP are looking likely to collapse the government.

Our current overlords, admittedly in a weak position, actually thought up the Chequers proposal
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/12/juncker-scorns-chequers-proposals-state-of-union-speech-eu-brexit

Quite astonishing that May is still clinging to it, wasting precious time.

gfplux

The last few pages have mostly been about the past.
Has no one heard the phrase
We are where we are.

Both sides can bicker all they like as is shown by post after post.
BUT
We are where we are.

If there is no withdrawal/Transition deal Britain leaves the EU in six months.

Freedom of movement between the EU and Britain will end. Do remember that freedom of movement will end between Britain and the EU.

Britain will take control of its borders
Britain will regulate carefully who comes into the country
Britain will regulate carefully those EU citizens living in the U.K.
Britain will negotiate trade deals with some country’s
Britain will trade with others under WTO rules
Britain will lose international manufacturing companys.

I am sure as an outsider others will make up a much more comprehensive list.
It is a list of things that will happen. NOT what the consequences will be.

gfplux

On the other side

EU will lose a major financial contributor
EU citizens will have greater difficulty in choosing to work in Britain
EU will gain more industrial manufacturing