Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Carl31

The FOM issues around Tony Blairs actions in 2004 were known at the time by the EU, the members at the time advised him against letting the eastern countries immediate access to the labour markets, so the referendum shouldn't have been a surprise

If leave voters are "racist" for voting the way they did, the EU states are just as "racist" for warning against it all those years ago

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Leave voters being racist doesn't fit my viewpoint. Most aren't by any real definition of the word. But that doesn't explain why they did vote to leave. I will assert though, that all of the racists I know were very open in voting leave. It's at least an honest stance even if I disagree with it.


I certainly don't know better than Leave voters why Leave voters voted Leave. That's what I'm trying to figure out by asking questions instead of just accepting it at face value when said face value is completely contradictory.


Saying that one of the only reasons to leave that stands up to scrutiny is racism, doesn't mean I think that Leavers are racist. Some are, but some are also left handed and afraid of camels.

I voted remain but know the difference between xenophobia and not wanting uncontrolled imigration, which you don't.

kingstreet

Lungboy wrote: »

You've just done the same thing you're accusing others of by labelling Remain = Left. There was a huge section of the political left who voted Leave because the EU is very from from a social democratic entity.

I voted remain.

I'd voted Conservative in every single election from being 18 until last year.

I now conclude I have no party which represents me under FPTP as only Labour or Conservative will ever win the seat where I live.

kingstreet

I voted remain but know the difference between xenophobia and not wanting uncontrolled imigration, which you don't.

With a net 277,000 immigrants from outside the EU last year (that's the ones our Government does have control over) I've always found that a slightly puzzling contradiction.

Those who don't want uncontrolled immigration from A but put no pressure on those who have control over a larger level from B.

ukcarper

kingstreet wrote: »

With a net 277,000 immigrants from outside the EU last year (that's the ones our Government does have control over) I've always found that a slightly puzzling contradiction.

You don't want uncontrolled immigration from A but put no pressure on those who have control over a larger level from B.

I personally don't.

kingstreet

Sorry, wasn't intended to be personalised to "you" as an individual rather than you in general, meaning "those that..."

It's sometimes difficult when you quote someone for the general issue for discussion.

Joan_number_1_2

What can possibly be puzzling about not wanting plane/bus loads of arrivals without any job or education arranged before they come & whose only intent is to try and become a car washer or nail technician?
I have no problem with immigration that serves a purpose and is agreed/controlled by the government of the day but huge numbers should not be allowed to turn up just because are from the EU.
You can't possibly be suggesting that having one rule for EU migrants and another for the rest of the world is fair .......... can you?


ETA
The key word was "uncontrolled" you see.

Herzlos

But we can deport those that aren't self sufficient within 3 months. If we bothered to register them.

I think a rule for a local area and another for everyone else is fair. If you don't, how narrowly do you define local? Country? County? Town? Street?

Arklight

fatbeetle wrote: »

Calling leave voters "racist" because it fits with your viewpoint, is belittling. If it's not meant to change views, then it can only be a childish slur.


There you go again, all crystal ball speculation, and "I know better than you do what you think and do." No wonder you lost.If someone calls you those names, then you have the right to call them on it. As I did with the poster who childishly claimed we all voted leave due to "racism"


No, again, you seek to impose your "I know better than you do" snobbery on the situation. Underestimating ANY enemy is fatal to ANY campaign, was the whole point. It's laughable that by trying to twist a simple statement you make such a hash of it.

Well you do have a point, not all Brexit voters are racists. Just the ones who are racists.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36964916

"Why are you still here?" a customer asked Lithuanian-born Alma Milaseviciute, 31, as she stood at the counter of the cheese shop where she works in Ludlow, Shropshire. "Good luck on your way back," another sneered.

"Get out of my country," yelled a man at Esmat Jeraj, 26, after swearing at her. He'd spotted her wearing a hijab as she walked to work in Whitechapel, east London. Jeraj was born and raised in the UK.

"You speak English, don't you?", a woman in her 60s asked Brazilian-born Danilo Venticinque, 30, at a Southampton bus stop when she overheard him talking to his Mexican wife in Spanish. "Can you understand what I'm saying? This is our country. We are leaving the EU. We will stop having so many people like you over here."

Each of these incidents took place since the referendum on European Union membership. All three victims are at pains to acknowledge the perpetrators represent a minority of Britons and that most people in the UK would be horrified by this behaviour. Prominent Leave campaigners have also strongly condemned abusive and bigoted behaviour of this kind.

But there's clear evidence that there's been a spike in hate crime since the 23 June ballot. Reported hate crime rose by 57% in the four days after the referendum, police say.

There were more than 6,000 reports of hate crime to police between mid-June and mid-July, according to the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC).

Cards containing the words "No more Polish Vermin" were distributed in Huntingdon. In Plymouth, a Polish family were the victims of what police believe was a racially-motivated arson attack. Racist graffiti was scrawled on a Polish centre in west London.

Or to put it another way, racists are really very excited indeed about Brexit. Which doesn't in anyway reflect badly on all you dyed in the wool Brexit loving non-racists as you campaign tirelessly for equality and the rights of man to live peacefully on the planet through the medium of xenophobic isolation.

Arklight

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

What can possibly be puzzling about not wanting plane/bus loads of arrivals without any job or education arranged before they come & whose only intent is to try and become a car washer or nail technician?
I have no problem with immigration that serves a purpose and is agreed/controlled by the government of the day but huge numbers should not be allowed to turn up just because are from the EU.
You can't possibly be suggesting that having one rule for EU migrants and another for the rest of the world is fair .......... can you?


ETA
The key word was "uncontrolled" you see.

European free movement allows sovereign states to restrict immigration to those who are self sufficient or are in work. Try settling in the Netherlands with no command of Dutch and no income. You can't.

The UK has never bothered to enforce the immigration powers it had. Which is why Cameron got short shrift on his Daily Mail tour of welfare indignation. The UK was whining about not having something it had but couldnt be bothered to use, and demanding unilateral access to something no one else wanted.

Or, as this point has been covered a million times now but still hasn't sunk in to the Brexit geniuses:

THE UK HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN REQUIRED TO ALLOW SETTLEMENT RIGHTS TO THOSE NOT IN WORK