Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

cogito

Tromking wrote: »

You wouldn't deny however the burgeoning influence of far right/populist politics on mainland Europe would you?

The thing is that instead of examining the causes of it (looking in the mirror would be a start), the gammons on the left can only rage about it and say that those they see as racists, xenophobes and bigots need to be re-educated.

Lungboy

cogito wrote: »

The EU only invests money in response to applications from the country concerned. So in answer to your question - probably, yes.

The Cornish are rapidly discovering that that isn't the case at all.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

The thing is that instead of examining the causes of it (looking in the mirror would be a start), the gammons on the left can only rage about it and say that those they see as racists, xenophobes and bigots need to be re-educated.

I have to admit I've never encountered a gammon on the left (or any attempt at re-appropriating the term). I also don't think I've seen the above from the left at all. The lefties on here have just been pointing out that there is a rise of anti-immigration (mostly due to right-wing media lies) and anti-establishment (due to discontent), and that we need to address the cause of the discontent (poor government policy) rather than the scapegoats (foreigners are the EU). The Remain campaign was catastrophically done, and Remain can be fairly condescending, but when everything is written off as "Project Fear" or "Sick of Experts" there's really not much else can be done.


This huge rise of the right across the Western world is concerning, but it's never really reaching critical mass (it nearly did in the UK and US), but normally falls off pretty quickly once it gets any scrutiny or power, because it's fundamentally directionless.

Trump and the right are going strong in the US due to deep partisan politics, and May has been left holding the can in the UK because she's got such a weak majority that she's held hostage by a handful of far-right MPs.

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

I have to admit I've never encountered a gammon on the left (or any attempt at re-appropriating the term). I also don't think I've seen the above from the left at all. The lefties on here have just been pointing out that there is a rise of anti-immigration (mostly due to right-wing media lies) and anti-establishment (due to discontent), and that we need to address the cause of the discontent (poor government policy) rather than the scapegoats (foreigners are the EU). The Remain campaign was catastrophically done, and Remain can be fairly condescending, but when everything is written off as "Project Fear" or "Sick of Experts" there's really not much else can be done.


This huge rise of the right across the Western world is concerning, but it's never really reaching critical mass (it nearly did in the UK and US), but normally falls off pretty quickly once it gets any scrutiny or power, because it's fundamentally directionless.

Trump and the right are going strong in the US due to deep partisan politics, and May has been left holding the can in the UK because she's got such a weak majority that she's held hostage by a handful of far-right MPs.

I wish those who hold pro-EU views would stop with this view that we have “far right MP’s in the U.K.
They simply do not exist in the way they do on mainland Europe.

StevieJ

Lungboy wrote: »

The Cornish are rapidly discovering that that isn't the case at all.

The welsh next.

buglawton

Herzlos wrote: »

I think the NIMBYs will be a much bigger headache for public service expansion than unions. More public transport means more union jobs, but whilst everyone wants to benefit from having better links nearby (for commuting or house prices), almost none of them want the traffic/noise/distruption of it running too close for them. Thus any ambitious building project will likely lead with 20 years of arguing about routes and landowner access, dealing with resident objections and so on. Just look at the new runway at Heathrow or HS2.

The stingy and foot-dragging compensation process is probably the cause of that.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

I have to admit I've never encountered a gammon on the left (or any attempt at re-appropriating the term). I also don't think I've seen the above from the left at all. The lefties on here have just been pointing out that there is a rise of anti-immigration (mostly due to right-wing media lies) and anti-establishment (due to discontent), and that we need to address the cause of the discontent (poor government policy) rather than the scapegoats (foreigners are the EU). The Remain campaign was catastrophically done, and Remain can be fairly condescending, but when everything is written off as "Project Fear" or "Sick of Experts" there's really not much else can be done.


This huge rise of the right across the Western world is concerning, but it's never really reaching critical mass (it nearly did in the UK and US), but normally falls off pretty quickly once it gets any scrutiny or power, because it's fundamentally directionless.

Trump and the right are going strong in the US due to deep partisan politics, and May has been left holding the can in the UK because she's got such a weak majority that she's held hostage by a handful of far-right MPs.

I see no reason why the term 'gammon' should apply exclusively to those on the riight. There are one or two left wing frothers on here who get insanely angry about any expressed views that don,t conform to their blinkered and naive view of the world.

The rise of the right is something that should be concerning the EU. There are already clear signs that right wing parties from Hungary, Poland, Italy and other countries of the EU are coalescing into a group which is likely to make huge gains in the next EU Parl elections. The left are making a huge mistake if they think that won't happen although the likes of Verhofstadt are already alarmed by the prospect.

Zero_Gravitas

In the Times:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/i-cant-promise-life-will-be-rosy-after-brexit-says-fox-b22w97jt7

Coming from the man who claimed that coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history"

Brexit is unraveling before our very eyes...

antrobus

Herzlos wrote: »

Which is interesting because Chuka is on record last year saying exactly the opposite.

Presumably he has changed his mind due to the steady stream of evidence that has emerged over the past year.

This happens from time to time. Even with politicians.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

I wish those who hold pro-EU views would stop with this view that we have “far right MP’s in the U.K.
They simply do not exist in the way they do on mainland Europe.

They may be less overtly racist than the US and European far right but in any political spectrum there must be both extremes, no?

Would you not say that Moggs and his Euro-Skeptic rebels sit on the right of the party? Or are you claiming they are left/centrists?


(I'm not actually Pro-EU, btw. I just think Brexit was a bad idea, made for the wrong reasons, being implemented by idiots, and the EU is better changed from within).