Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

antrobus wrote: »

Either you support the modern state of Israel, or you want to dismantle it and replace it with something else.

Which side are you on?

Far too simplistic.

I can respect the Jewish faith and it's followers, recognise Israel's right to exist, but also condemn the illegal actions of the Israeli government regarding numerous breaches of international law and a 70 year campaign of brutality and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian people.

I can support the modern state of Israel's right to govern itself within it's borders, but I cannot support it's ongoing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

I can support the right of Israeli citizens to settle in Israel, but I cannot support the illegal settlement of Israeli citizens on other people's land in the occupied territories.

I am quite sure that large numbers of Jewish people disagree with the state of Israel machine gunning Palestinian children or bombing refugee centres with white phosphorus weapons.

Just as I am sure large numbers of Muslim people disagree with the brutality of ISIS, and large numbers of Christian people disagree with the brutality of the Lords Resistance Army.

Criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Jewish people doesn't make someone anti-semitic, just as criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Muslims doesn't make someone Islamophobic.

But on any objective measure, Islamophobia is a far bigger problem in this country than anti-semitism....

Moby

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Far too simplistic.

I can respect the Jewish faith and it's followers, recognise Israel's right to exist, but also condemn the illegal actions of the Israeli government regarding numerous breaches of international law and a 70 year campaign of brutality and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian people.

I can support the modern state of Israel's right to govern itself within it's borders, but I cannot support it's ongoing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

I can support the right of Israeli citizens to settle in Israel, but I cannot support the illegal settlement of Israeli citizens on other people's land in the occupied territories.

I am quite sure that large numbers of Jewish people disagree with the state of Israel machine gunning Palestinian children or bombing refugee centres with white phosphorus weapons.

Just as I am sure large numbers of Muslim people disagree with the brutality of ISIS, and large numbers of Christian people disagree with the brutality of the Lords Resistance Army.

Criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Jewish people doesn't make someone anti-semitic, just as criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Muslims doesn't make someone Islamophobic.

But on any objective measure, Islamophobia is a far bigger problem in this country than anti-semitism....

Totally spot on. Accusations of anti semitism are used as a stick to beat Corbyn with by people that hate him anyway. Accusations of anti semitism are used against those who attack the policies of the Israel Govmt. Corbyn has always supported the Palestinians and criticised the Israeli Govmts policies towards the settlements that's why people like Sacks and Hodge hate him. He is not servile to the Israeli Govmt lobby groups like other party leaders.
Corbyn protested against apartheid in the 70's. May was recently filmed on Robben Island in Mandelas cell. When asked by channel 4 what she had done to combat apartheid in her political career she had no answer!
https://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/israellobby/#sthash.5yE5R6jU.dpbs

cogito

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Far too simplistic.

I can respect the Jewish faith and it's followers, recognise Israel's right to exist, but also condemn the illegal actions of the Israeli government regarding numerous breaches of international law and a 70 year campaign of brutality and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian people.

I can support the modern state of Israel's right to govern itself within it's borders, but I cannot support it's ongoing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

I can support the right of Israeli citizens to settle in Israel, but I cannot support the illegal settlement of Israeli citizens on other people's land in the occupied territories.

I am quite sure that large numbers of Jewish people disagree with the state of Israel machine gunning Palestinian children or bombing refugee centres with white phosphorus weapons.

Just as I am sure large numbers of Muslim people disagree with the brutality of ISIS, and large numbers of Christian people disagree with the brutality of the Lords Resistance Army.

Criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Jewish people doesn't make someone anti-semitic, just as criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Muslims doesn't make someone Islamophobic.

But on any objective measure, Islamophobia is a far bigger problem in this country than anti-semitism....

I can agree with most of this. But if islamophobia is a problem in the UK, how much more of a problem is islamic hatred of the Kuffar? They are keeping MI5 much busier than the islamophobes.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

I can agree with most of this. But if islamophobia is a problem in the UK, how much more of a problem is islamic hatred of the Kuffar? They are keeping MI5 much busier than the islamophobes.

There are lots of problems caused by islamaphobia that don't involve intelligence services.

Moby

antrobus wrote: »

Zionism refers to the movement to create a Jewish state in the Middle East, roughly corresponding to the historical land of Israel, and thus support for the modern state of Israel. Anti-Zionism opposes that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36160928

Either you support the modern state of Israel, or you want to dismantle it and replace it with something else.

Which side are you on?

Zionism also promotes the extension of the state of Israel!
Do you think the policies of the Israeli Govmt towards the Palestinians are acceptable? Do you accept it is legitimate to criticise and campaign against the policies of the Israeli Govmt?
https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/
Watch this undercover investigation of the Labour lobby group 'Friends of Israel', watch how Joan Ryan MP deals with an elderly lady asking her to explain the Israeli Govmts policies towards Palestinian settlements at the Labour Party conference. She accuses her of anti semitism! and makes an official complaint!

GreatApe

Herzlos wrote: »

You can keep telling yourself people are only poor because of distinction but it's not true. I'm sure I showed you dozens of stories of people where they ended up using food banks through no fault of themselves.

We are a nation of 66 million people there will be all sorts of problems and upsets but the fact is everything works and the vast majority have all their needs and most their wants meet. I really dont care about a homeless person you can point to or a person who had to use the food bank as they are a very minority and more importantly their plight does not stem from free market capatilism nor will it be solved by a corybn government.

This should be obvious by the fact that even rich people have !!!! lives and addictions. I have mentioned before this woman I know she owns her own house and two more she is wealthy by your definition but she has a !!!! life a very difficult life thanks to her drink addicted husband

The system largely works for most, and most have their needs met. But those bodies providing the care are struggling across the board. Longer waits for everything, less resources available for everyone, low wages, high debt.

Empty propaganda your ignorance and bias is ridiculous.
The UK has HIGH wages and full employment.

You can try to blame it all on the poor for being poor, but that doesn't explain everything else.

There are no poor people in the UK there are only varying levels of dysfunction.

I know a lady who migrated here about 30 years ago she hasn't work a day in her life yet she has never been poor and had a clean tidy home and good kids who have now grown up to be decent middle class people. How is it that a migrant who couldn't even speak English could riase two good kids and keep a tidy well ordered house? Well it is because she was a functional individual. It is true she couldn't eat out or afford a car or buy expensive things but this is the beauty of free markets there are goods and services at all price points thanks to free markets. You can get a hair cut for a fiver or £50. You can buy a meal at a restaurant for £20 or buy the ingredients for £2 and cook it yourself.

She also has a friend who I know a bit about. That person and her husband worked most their lives but they were always poor and they are still poor. The main reason was/is her husbands gambling addiction. They had much more income coming in but always were poor and will continue to be poor. Their home was a skip their kids have grown up to become low level drug dealers and one has spent half his adult life in prison

So I will repeate once more. There is no poverty in the UK that is not dysfunction induced. Oh actually there is some mental heath induced of course too but I would include that under dysfunctional. And when I use the word I do not mean it was dysfunctional due to their own making. You can become dysfunctional for all sorts of reasons and some functional people become dysfuncitonal post mental breakdowns etc

Before you try to claim I'm wrong because some large number of homeless have substance abuse problems, doesn't mean substance abuse is the sole reason for homelessness.

You are wrong for even trying to use street sleepers as the gauge for if free market capitalism is working or not. Its a totally stupid metric. There are street sleepers. There are drug addicts. There are rapists and all other sorts of evil and wrong in any system so to try and point to that as caused by free market capitalism is stupid ridiculous propaganda

GreatApe

antrobus wrote: »

Oh I don't know, the UK fiscal deficit is now below 2%, which is sustainable. Employment is at record highs, we have economic growth.

What's your Plan B?

Plan B is simple

Deny things are working at the moment. Actually go further and cry that things are falling apart and every problem anyone has is because of the economic system in use. Got a toothache? Its capitalism. Wife left you for another man? That is free markets. Started doing crack and beating your children? It is because taxes are too low.
Use propaganda and an ignorant public to gain political power and then burn down the current system and fingers crossed what we build out of the ashes will provide more goods and services and well being to the people (actually !!!! the people so long as I can burn something down and come out on top)

GreatApe

antrobus wrote: »

I think you mean rough sleepers. I have certainly seen claims that 80% of rough sleepers have substance abuse problems. Which means that simply sticking them in a flat and saying they're not homeless any more isn't the solution. You need to tackle the substance abuse first. Otherwise all you do is repeat the cycle of them spending the rent money on smack whatever, getting evicted, and back on the streets.

The homeless include all those people living in temporary housing because there isn't enough actual housing for them to live in. Largely because successive haven't built enough. Which, of course, some people blame on all those eastern Europeans flocking over here.

94% are addicted according to a study cited on the BBC

And most likely the other 6% are lying

It is also quite a small problem in that there are not that many homeless compared to 1 the general population and 2 even the addicted population.

The 'problem' is that one or two rough sleepers camped up in very busy location get seen by tens of thousands of people. Camp up next to a train station entrance and you can be seen by a million people a month

It is also not a homes or immigrants problem. There were homeless 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago and there will always be these people so long as addictions and dysfunctions exist

GreatApe

Overall it is clear free market capitalism works VERY WELL it does not solve dysfunctional people and families but nor does any other system you can think of.
Even if we look at just the last 10 years a period of recession what do we see?
500 million new homes built. Are there 500 million new millionaires over the decade? Nope.
What does that mean then? That this system is so fantastic that 500 million poor and middle people who did not have decent homes a decade ago do so now! How can you be so evil and stupid to risk that massive rate of improvement on ideological warfare?

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

There are lots of problems caused by islamaphobia that don't involve intelligence services.

The reverse is also true.