Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

mrginge

Herzlos wrote: »

He's always been clear in his disapproval of the Israeli state (which is not in itself anti-semitism), mostly on the basis of it's behaviour towards Palestine and Palestinians. It's just that people leap to anti-semitism when anyone criticises Israel on anything. I'm very much against what they are doing, and it's entirely unrelated to them being nominally Jewish.

In what way does your above comment fit your previous description of a ‘neutral peace broker’?
Can you provide the required pictures or not?

He's also been on the right side of history on all the big votes.

Not brexit (official party line)
Or
Even brexit (unofficial based on years of actual comment)

Seems like a man you can trust to stick to his views.

I find it really bizarre that people can throw racist, terrorist or enemy of people claims towards Corbyn and the Labour party whilst wilfully ignoring that the Tories or objectively worse on every count. Are you worried he's going to make you pay more tax or something?

I’m not in the slightest worried about him making me personally pay more tax. More that he’ll just spend billions on stuff that isn’t funded by pretending it’s all come from the money tree and shafting over the next generation.

Herzlos

I'm not hunting for pictures of anything; we all know that's a waste of time.

Note that I'm not defending him; he's a terrible leader (marginally less terrible than May).
But being a terrible leader doesn't have anything to do with him being a terrorist, racist or anti-semite. He's clearly none of those things.

He's for Brexit ( I think; he's pretty vague) so maybe that'll be the right side of history. Time will tell.

Herzlos

mrginge wrote: »

I’m not in the slightest worried about him making me personally pay more tax. More that he’ll just spend billions on stuff that isn’t funded by pretending it’s all come from the money tree and shafting over the next generation.

Yet the current approach of austerity and privitization clearly isn't working either, for all but a few making huge profits from it.

Arklight

antrobus wrote: »

I find it even more bizarre that people defend him.

"The recently disclosed remarks by Jeremy Corbyn are the most offensive statement made by a senior British politician since Enoch Powell's 1968 'Rivers of Blood' speech. It was divisive, hateful and like Powell's speech it undermines the existence of an entire group of British citizens by depicting them as essentially alien."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45333268

This is what the article quotes him as having said.

He said: "This [Hassassian's speech] was dutifully recorded by the thankfully silent Zionists who were in the audience on that occasion, and then came up and berated him afterwards for what he'd said."

Mr Corbyn, who was a backbench MP at the time, went on to claim that the people concerned "clearly have two problems".

"One is they don't want to study history, and secondly, having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don't understand English irony either."

Zionism and Jewishness are totally different things. And let's be very clear here. I find Zionism about as appealing as Apartheid era South Africa.

Zionism is a racist, ultra-right, political, religious, and ideological movement that insists on the occupation of set lands for a divinely appointed master race of believers. The Palestinian people have suffered appallingly at the hands of a group of religious bigots who justify their appalling actions using the excuse that God says they can.

Zionism is enthusiastically supported by the hard right fundamentalist Christians in America because their own particular magic book of special made up fairy tales says that the end times can't come until the Jews fully occupy the lands that god has "given" them.

Not all Jews though. The ones that have brown skins and who are from Africa aren't very welcome in the Zionist new world for some reason.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-32813056

Joe Biden is a Zionist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-UXZ-1ups

There are plenty of Jews and plenty of Israelis that oppose Zionism. These ones served in the IDF.

https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

I don't believe in any of these religions but claiming that an attack on Zionism is an attack on Jews makes as much sense as claiming that criticising the KKK is an attack on Christianity.

Unless of course, you are a Zionist.

GreatApe

Herzlos wrote: »

Yet the current approach of austerity and privitization clearly isn't working either, for all but a few making huge profits from it.

That is such an empty and stupid statement.

Whatever you want to call the system that the UK operates under it is clearly a very very successful system. The vast majority have their needs met or exceeded. There are people with huge problems in the UK but they are almost always down to addictions (drugs/gambling/alcohol/abuse/etc) and have little to no connection with the economic system we operate under. This is one of the tricks the left play they try to equate pretty much all problems to the economic system we operate under. This is clearly stupid yet they dont get called up on it. Are there no homeless or drug addicts or wife beaters or alcoholics in norway? Were there none in east Germany before the wall fell?

As I keep saying even if I were a devout communist I would have to concede that worldwide this thing we call capitalism is working extremely well. I keep reciting the fact that each week the world is building 1 million new homes net. Let me repeat that each WEEK the world is adding a million new homes. This is going mostly the the poorest. Just look at 30 years ago the world is a much much better place and fast forward 30 years from now and the world will be in yet still a much better place. To start off with there will be 1.5 BILLION additional homes in the world. The rich already have all the homes they need these 1.5 billion additional homes will mostly go to the poorest and the middle.

An honest debate would be to say look the current system worlds really well but I think a far left system would work even better. The car is going at 80mph and if we upgrade the engine to communism it will be able to hit 85mph..........of course the right wing argument is that every time we try upgrade the cars engine to communism we end up in a crash and once we get back on the road we find the engine only running at 10mph

Herzlos

You can keep telling yourself people are only poor because of distinction but it's not true. I'm sure I showed you dozens of stories of people where they ended up using food banks through no fault of themselves.

The system largely works for most, and most have their needs met. But those bodies providing the care are struggling across the board. Longer waits for everything, less resources available for everyone, low wages, high debt.

You can try to blame it all on the poor for being poor, but that doesn't explain everything else.

Before you try to claim I'm wrong because some large number of homeless have substance abuse problems, doesn't mean substance abuse is the sole reason for homelessness.

antrobus

Herzlos wrote: »

But being a terrible leader doesn't have anything to do with him being a terrorist, racist or anti-semite. He's clearly none of those things...

Has anyone accused Corbyn of "being a terrorist"?

Don't make things up.

antrobus

Arklight wrote: »

...

Unless of course, you are a Zionist.

Zionism refers to the movement to create a Jewish state in the Middle East, roughly corresponding to the historical land of Israel, and thus support for the modern state of Israel. Anti-Zionism opposes that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36160928

Either you support the modern state of Israel, or you want to dismantle it and replace it with something else.

Which side are you on?

antrobus

Herzlos wrote: »

Yet the current approach of austerity and privitization clearly isn't working either, for all but a few making huge profits from it.

Oh I don't know, the UK fiscal deficit is now below 2%, which is sustainable. Employment is at record highs, we have economic growth.

What's your Plan B?

antrobus

Herzlos wrote: »

...
Before you try to claim I'm wrong because some large number of homeless have substance abuse problems, doesn't mean substance abuse is the sole reason for homelessness.

I think you mean rough sleepers. I have certainly seen claims that 80% of rough sleepers have substance abuse problems. Which means that simply sticking them in a flat and saying they're not homeless any more isn't the solution. You need to tackle the substance abuse first. Otherwise all you do is repeat the cycle of them spending the rent money on smack whatever, getting evicted, and back on the streets.

The homeless include all those people living in temporary housing because there isn't enough actual housing for them to live in. Largely because successive haven't built enough. Which, of course, some people blame on all those eastern Europeans flocking over here.