Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Filo25

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Far too simplistic.

I can respect the Jewish faith and it's followers, recognise Israel's right to exist, but also condemn the illegal actions of the Israeli government regarding numerous breaches of international law and a 70 year campaign of brutality and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian people.

I can support the modern state of Israel's right to govern itself within it's borders, but I cannot support it's ongoing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

I can support the right of Israeli citizens to settle in Israel, but I cannot support the illegal settlement of Israeli citizens on other people's land in the occupied territories.

I am quite sure that large numbers of Jewish people disagree with the state of Israel machine gunning Palestinian children or bombing refugee centres with white phosphorus weapons.

Just as I am sure large numbers of Muslim people disagree with the brutality of ISIS, and large numbers of Christian people disagree with the brutality of the Lords Resistance Army.

Criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Jewish people doesn't make someone anti-semitic, just as criticising the brutal and illegal actions of a small minority of Muslims doesn't make someone Islamophobic.

But on any objective measure, Islamophobia is a far bigger problem in this country than anti-semitism....

I would agree with nearly all of that, the issue I have with the Labour leadership and much of the membership on the issue however is that many seem to regard the ongoing conflict in the region as being entirely the fault of Israel, while ignoring the actions of groups like Hamas.

Sadly the extremes on both sides probably feed on each other to some extent. it is easy to manipulate public opinion amongst "your" population towards greater extremism in their actions when you can justify it in terms of a response to the actions of those subhuman folk on the other side.

Something I am all too familiar with from growing up in Northern Ireland.

Filo25

Herzlos wrote: »

He's always been clear in his disapproval of the Israeli state (which is not in itself anti-semitism), mostly on the basis of it's behaviour towards Palestine and Palestinians. It's just that people leap to anti-semitism when anyone criticises Israel on anything. I'm very much against what they are doing, and it's entirely unrelated to them being nominally Jewish.

He's also been on the right side of history on all the big votes.

I find it really bizarre that people can throw racist, terrorist or enemy of people claims towards Corbyn and the Labour party whilst wilfully ignoring that the Tories or objectively worse on every count. Are you worried he's going to make you pay more tax or something?

I think it is pushing things to say he was on the right side of history on all of the big votes, that would imply some great weighing up of each situation based on the facts in each case and a reasoned decision based on the outcome of that internal debate.

In reality, maybe unfair of me, but to me it seems a much simpler internal debate for Corbyn.

Economically no matter the problem the answer is always more state intervention, more taxation, more spending.

Foreign policy the answer is pretty much always no military intervention by "The West", US, UK, NATO or perish the thought Israeli led military adventures are generally very bad things, so yes imho on the right side in Iraq, not in Kosovo, most would say not in the Falklands either. Opposition to Russian led interventionism in recent years has always been a lot quieter.

Northern Ireland ( a subject close to my heart!) his cosying up to Sinn Fein didn't look like the right call at the time and doesn't look much better in retrospect, nor does his opposition to the Anglo Irish Agreement, Corbyn's end goal in NI was never to try to create a badly needed more inclusive society where both nationalists and unionists could feel more accepted it was a United Ireland, that branch of the party had no issues with what they viewed as IRA freedom fighters against British imperialism, much though they try to hide that now.

fatbeetle

antrobus wrote: »

The homeless include all those people living in temporary housing because there isn't enough actual housing for them to live in. Largely because successive haven't built enough. Which, of course, some people blame on all those eastern Europeans flocking over here.

So we should just keep building houses to accommodate the 282,00 people who migrate to Blighty each year? I think that would soon ruin the UK. But some remoaners are content to give away this country and all that is good about it, just to salve their middle-class guilt.

antrobus

fatbeetle wrote: »

So we should just keep building houses to accommodate the 282,00 people who migrate to Blighty each year? I think that would soon ruin the UK. But some remoaners are content to give away this country and all that is good about it, just to salve their middle-class guilt.

Faced with an increasing population, you either build houses to accommodate them, or you don't, and you have increasing house prices and rents, more homeless etc.

Yes, one of the drivers of recent population growth in the UK has been immigration. But the reason why these eastern Europeans, for example 'flock' here is because they can find work. I recently spent some time in a rehabilitation home. Staff were Spanish, Roumanian, Italian, Croatian, not a single Anglo to be found.

I don't understand how their presence means 'giving away' the country. What are you frightened of?

antrobus

In other news Chuka Umunna says that the Labour Party is 'institutionally racist'. Trevor Phillips says that the Labour Party is 'led by anti-Semites and racists'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6147949/Labour-MP-Chuka-Umunna-says-party-institutionally-racist.html

It's a sad state of affairs.

Probably irrelevant as far as Brexit and house prices are concerned. But it's still bl00dy sad.

AFF8879

I do not buy this argument of needing to build more homes. Where prices are highest / demand is greatest, you cannot drive a mile without seeing building plots everywhere. Where I live in London I think there are about 6 or 7 within a half mile radius. But these are all being marketed at the same or higher price than nearby, existing properties (example, my 1-bed flat built circa 1990 cost me just over 300k but new build studios are up for 330k, then another 40k jump to a 1-bed). So why does anyone think that building more is going to bring prices down?

GreatApe

AFF8879 wrote: »

I do not buy this argument of needing to build more homes. Where prices are highest / demand is greatest, you cannot drive a mile without seeing building plots everywhere. Where I live in London I think there are about 6 or 7 within a half mile radius. But these are all being marketed at the same or higher price than nearby, existing properties (example, my 1-bed flat built circa 1990 cost me just over 300k but new build studios are up for 330k, then another 40k jump to a 1-bed). So why does anyone think that building more is going to bring prices down?

That is a silly thought, if so the opposite would also hold true, ie if we just destroyed a few hundred thousand homes a year nowt would happen to rents or prices

The bit you miss is that our capacity to build more is restrained so any fall or increase relative to what would have been will be modest.

If we built 100,000 more homes than we currently do I think that would have a negative 1% impact on house prices which isn't much but compound that over say a 20 year period and house prices would be 20% cheaper than they other wise would be which is significant.

Now if the UK had the capacity to build say 0.5 million homes in 2019 and 1 million more in 2020 then we would see a 20% + real term fall over a two year period but the UK can not ramp up production that fast.

BobQ

GreatApe wrote: »

Now if the UK had the capacity to build say 0.5 million homes in 2019 and 1 million more in 2020 then we would see a 20% + real term fall over a two year period but the UK can not ramp up production that fast.

Only if those houses were of the type people wanted to live in.

Herzlos

In case anyone is wondering what the EU has done for them, there's a little tool:
https://www.myeu.uk/#/

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

In case anyone is wondering what the EU has done for them, there's a little tool:
https://www.myeu.uk/#/

The EU only redistributes our own money. But I guess you already knew that.
As a resident of Scotland you’d be better to acknowledge the hefty bung you receive from rUK. Now that’s serious money.