Shop Radio License? scammers?

DCodd

Cornucopia wrote: »

These people are a nuisance. I had a letter and then a few phone calls from them. I don't need a licence, as I work from home and have no customers or employees here.

Having examined what they have to say, it does seem that they are trying to exercise some kind of authority that they do not have. They cited the Copyright and Patents Act as their legal authority to operate (not sure on that). However, unless the Act specifically requires the public to give them information, then no one is bound to give them information.

I sent them on their way with no information and no money and they haven't come back to me.

The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act gives PRS and PPL the authority to issue licences and collect fees only. Enforcement has to be done through the courts.

hemamu

Help, think I may have been stung by PPL at work!! We don't play music in the office, but in the staff room is a TV which we have a TV licence for. Occasionally when someone is at lunch they will flick on the news or sports. However PPL have said because of the music played at the start of programmes we need one of their licences!! The TV licence people have said as I have a business TV licence I am fully covered, but PPL are sending me an invoice out! Is this right?? It sounds absolutely crazy that we have to pay two different companies to watch one thing and it's not like I am choosing the music I'm listening to, it's in the programme!! The guy was very sneaky on the phone as well and when I started questioning why he couldn't disappear quick enough after being happy to chat. :-(

googler

hemamu wrote: »

Help, think I may have been stung by PPL at work!! We don't play music in the office, but in the staff room is a TV which we have a TV licence for. Occasionally when someone is at lunch they will flick on the news or sports. However PPL have said because of the music played at the start of programmes we need one of their licences!! The TV licence people have said as I have a business TV licence I am fully covered, but PPL are sending me an invoice out! Is this right??(

Is the answer anywhere in these pages?

http://www.ppluk.com/I-Play-Music/Businesses/?ag=pplbrand&ad=search&gclid=CLzxqvvNl7sCFQMHwwodEjkAJw

Edit -found it

What is the definition of 'playing recorded music in public'?
A PPL licence is required when recorded music, including radio and TV, is played in public. There is no statutory definition of 'playing in public' (also sometimes referred to as 'public performance') but the UK courts have given guidance on its meaning and ruled that it is any playing of music outside of a domestic setting – so, for example, playing recorded music at a workplace, public event or in the course of any business activities is considered to be 'playing in public'. In contrast, any recorded music being played as part of domestic home life or when there is an audience entirely comprised of friends and/or family (such as at a private family party) does not require a PPL licence.

hemamu

Hi Googler, I did look all through their site and it talks about playing music, not the TV. It states that TV broadcasters have to pay, so I can't see why I have to pay as well. I'm not choosing the programme for it's music! It's all pretty confusing. He was saying that because the broadcasters play jingles at the start of programmes that is what we are paying for, but as far as I can tell I am not playing "recorded" music, it is a live feed from the TV. Which would make me think that we shouldn't have to pay? To be honest I had never even heard of PPL until they phoned me!

googler

googler wrote: »

What is the definition of 'playing recorded music in public'?
A PPL licence is required when recorded music, including radio and TV, is played in public. ....

This is the core statement, as I see it....

googler

hemamu wrote: »

... as far as I can tell I am not playing "recorded" music, it is a live feed from the TV. Which would make me think that we shouldn't have to pay? To be honest I had never even heard of PPL until they phoned me!

If it's being played as part of a TV programme, and the compilers of the programme got it from a source that was committed to vinyl, CD etc before the programme, then it's 'recorded' music, surely.

If all of the music broadcast as part of the TV's programming was being played live in the studio, and it hadn't previously been committed to a recording, you might have a case, but.....

halfone

hemamu wrote: »

Occasionally when someone is at lunch they will flick on the news or sports. However PPL have said because of the music played at the start of programmes we need one of their licences!! -(

Are you on paid lunch breaks or unpaid? I'm just wondering whether it would make a difference if you're watching TV in your own personal time...

Although reading googler's quoted definition it seems as though they're making a distinction between the workplace and the domestic rather than work time/personal time. Hm.

Anna77

adouglasmhor wrote: »

No you need a licence from the performing rights society for all these things + a PPL licence as well so it's dearer, Do you sell things in your shop or just give them away? Do you think the musicians and songwriters work for nothing. If it's one small radio or TV its's under £60 per annum. If you don't pay it




This kind of sarcastic response is really unnecessary when someone is just asking for advice. "Do you sell things in your shop or just give them away?". It isn't unreasonable to think that this is just another tax given that listening to the radio anywhere else is free at the point of use. Do you pay to listen to the radio in your car? I certainly don't, but I can invite up to 4 others into my car with the radio playing without charge. That's more than the number of staff in my small business where I have to pay this (what I see to be) ridiculous fee. Radio broadcasters already make their money from advertising or the tv license fee (bbc) and artists in turn charge these radio stations for the use of their music. So let's try and play nice shall we?

downright_mean_with_money

Anna77 wrote: »

adouglasmhor wrote: »

No you need a licence from the performing rights society for all these things + a PPL licence as well so it's dearer, Do you sell things in your shop or just give them away? Do you think the musicians and songwriters work for nothing. If it's one small radio or TV its's under £60 per annum. If you don't pay it


I agree with Anna77. as this whole thread mentions on many occasions - why do musicians or artists feel they are any different from other worker who sells a service? TO BE CLEAR "they do NOT work for nothing" they are PAID a royalty when the record is first purchased! AND THAT SHOULD BE IT?:eek:

zaax

downright_mean_with_money wrote: »

Anna77 wrote: »

adouglasmhor wrote: »

No you need a licence from the performing rights society for all these things + a PPL licence as well so it's dearer, Do you sell things in your shop or just give them away? Do you think the musicians and songwriters work for nothing. If it's one small radio or TV its's under £60 per annum. If you don't pay it


I agree with Anna77. as this whole thread mentions on many occasions - why do musicians or artists feel they are any different from other worker who sells a service? TO BE CLEAR "they do NOT work for nothing" they are PAID a royalty when the record is first purchased! AND THAT SHOULD BE IT?:eek:

It not only musicians and artists a lot of people get royalties like insurance sales people every time the policy is renewed they get some money