Shop Radio License? scammers?

emmasam

So totally hate to harp on about the PRS licence thing but I certainly felt the strong arm of the PRS Police today!! By way of background I'm a very small family business operating from two warehouses on either side of the street. My side Warehouse 1 - office, admin, meeting room and warehouse storage - houses me and my hubby and no music ever whatsoever (I'm old fashioned - I like quiet to use my abacus!). Warehouse number 2 houses my warehouse chap who quietly carries on cleaning and repairing and testing equipment ready to be brought over to warehouse number 1 for storage. He does this - admittedly - while listening to the radio...

I clearly have signs up at Warehouse 2 stating that no customers are allowed beyond the front door for safety reasons - its staff only. The sign then directs them over to me in Warehouse 1 (the quiet side).

A letter turns up today from PRS stating I probably need a licence for playing music. I immediately checked their website which clearly states that you don't need a licence if you have a lone employee working on a business premises but this does not apply if my little lone ranger gets a visitor/customer.

So I duly rang the man at PRS up to say that even though they'd addressed the one letter to both units they are actually separate, stand alone, across the road from each other buildings. I told him I did have a man who played the radio but that he was always over there on his own. Admittedly I do go over once or twice a week, BUT, every time I walk in I turn the radio off because I can't stand the dance station he listens to!!! Sounds far-fetched but its true. I can't hear myself think if the radio's on. What he does when I leave is up to him. If he needs something (like a cuppa) he comes over to the quiet side.

The man from PRS then said he'd do me a special flat rate for 3 employees. I said 'why? I only have one listening to music?' and he said what about you and your husband?? I said I'm not a visitor/customer - I own the business and I very rarely go over there...he comes to me? This is when the 'I'm here to help you attitude' changed completely. Threatening would be the right word!!! Can you believe it?? He told me he couldn't be held responsible for an 'Agent' turning up here to check us out...(didn't realise I was dealing with the CIA but however...) I told him I was more than happy for an agent to check me out - any time you like!! He even accused me of nit-picking when I pointed out that he'd already told me that if I was in the radio filled warehouse for between 3 - 4 minutes I'd be considered a 'visitor/customer' - then he was telling me that if I stepped foot in the other side for literally a minute I'd be liable to be carted off by the Agent who's likely to be listening for the radio through the letterbox!!!! (Ok the last bit about being carted off is my artistic licence but I'm trying to describe the type of 'tone' the PRS man was using).

I'm completely all for what's fair is fair (I worked for a tv company in my previous life and I totally understand what its like dealing with music copyright & how important it is) but corr blimey! Do we not think this heavy-handed tactic is a bit much? When does common sense prevail?

So scary was the phone call with the PRS I'm saddened to admit I've now confiscated the radio from my little lone ranger for fear of the Agent turning up here at any given moment! How sad is that? There are plenty of businesses out there probably not paying for what they should be but now the PRS have totally spoiled my little man's pleasure. The PRS man even had the cheek to tell me that the 'lone worker' line is a bit of a grey area but surely they can't claim that? How do they not know what's black and what's white if they set the rules? When you read the Government's reply to the petition (posted earlier) it kind of agrees they don't condone this kind of tactic so how does the small businessman get his voice heard ? Oh - and if I give the radio back to my lone worker and the Agent DID turn up would that be construed as a 'visitor/customer' and my getting fined for not having a licence? Sounds mad but its almost like they're dying to catch you out!!!!!

CeeBeeDeeBee

Does anyone know exactly what the PRS agents are allowed to do?

Could you not write back to them in the same way you do to Bailiffs when threatened with a visit revoking their licence to attend your property?

As your premisis are private property surely they have no right of access without a court order or warrant?

nic014

Hi. I run a small business and have only just found out about the two licenses required to play music in my shop. What has annoyed me is the fact that I told the companies that I would turn the radio off and not listen to it, but I have been told that this doesn't matter and I will have to pay for a years licence and I will also be sent a surcharge invoice! Ok i'm not happy about having to pay the surcharge invoice but so be it, as I have been listening to the radio with no licence, but how can they tell me that I have to buy a years licence as well!

rev_henry

nic014 wrote: »

Hi. I run a small business and have only just found out about the two licenses required to play music in my shop. What has annoyed me is the fact that I told the companies that I would turn the radio off and not listen to it, but I have been told that this doesn't matter and I will have to pay for a years licence and I will also be sent a surcharge invoice! Ok i'm not happy about having to pay the surcharge invoice but so be it, as I have been listening to the radio with no licence, but how can they tell me that I have to buy a years licence as well!

Don't pay it.
If you get rid of the radio now how can they possibly prove that you used to listen anyway?

emmasam, I'm no expert, but I'd suggest printing the part on their website about the lone worker thing, in case they remove it quietly, and do not let an 'agent' in to your premises if they turn up.

nic014

Sorry rev_henry, I should have put in my post that I had an inspector call on me in the shop so he heard that we were listening to a radio. This is how I found out about the licences. I have to say though that all he did was drop in a leaflet about PPL and take my shop name and address. I wish he had actually spoken to me about what they do and what the licence is for etc, but he was probably worried I would give him a load of abuse!

DCodd

nic014 wrote: »

Sorry rev_henry, I should have put in my post that I had an inspector call on me in the shop so he heard that we were listening to a radio. This is how I found out about the licences. I have to say though that all he did was drop in a leaflet about PPL and take my shop name and address. I wish he had actually spoken to me about what they do and what the licence is for etc, but he was probably worried I would give him a load of abuse!

At the very worst the PRS can only prove that you listened to a radio for one day in your shop. Write to them and say that you have removed the radio and that you are not prepared to pay for a years licence as you only listened to the radio on the day the inspector called and you have since removed the radio. It will be up to them the prove differently.

DCodd

emmasam wrote: »

Oh - and if I give the radio back to my lone worker and the Agent DID turn up would that be construed as a 'visitor/customer' and my getting fined for not having a licence? Sounds mad but its almost like they're dying to catch you out!!!!!

It would be trespass if they did not have permission to enter the premisies and as such non admissable. The PRS and PPL have no legal powers to enter private premisies unless they go down the same route as everyone else has to and get a Court Order. The Federation of Small Businesses has a forum which has some good advice on it.

rev_henry

DCodd wrote: »

At the very worst the PRS can only prove that you listened to a radio for one day in your shop. Write to them and say that you have removed the radio and that you are not prepared to pay for a years licence as you only listened to the radio on the day the inspector called and you have since removed the radio. It will be up to them the prove differently.

This. I doubt the 'inspector's' claiming to have heard the radio is sufficient evidence anyway, in a court setting, as he's not an independent witness or a policeman.

miss-nbv

Please, i would like to know has anyone ever been taken to court by The PRS and PPL?
Also if the client is play music in my shop from their phone, do i have to responsible for that? as i do not have a right to stop the client playing music from their phone.

JustRimless

miss-nbv wrote: »

Please, i would like to know has anyone ever been taken to court by The PRS and PPL?

I'd be interested in this too.

Like others, someone popped into our shop some time ago with leaflets about PPL.
I have since had a bill for the current and previous year's license.
We are a family business, 3 of us in total and I listen to Radio 4.

I got a phone call from some entirely unreasonable jobsworth yesterday threatening me with court action if I don't cough up.

So you can't (apparently) even listen to talk radio without the PPL/PRS collecting £100s from you per year in order to protect the rights of the poor music artists.

It's barely believable IMO.

From another forum

in terms of retail outlets\offices etc - PRS\PPL only have redress in a civil court & in terms of what they could bring a case for, it amounts to a breach of contract (with or without damages) case - as you never entered into a contract with them, they will have difficulty making a case. In addtion, if you say you didnt have the radio on...they say you did...where is the evidence? They have no recordings & it is your word against theirs - no judge will even entertain it.

I guess it's all about whether people will take the chance and have a stand off with them and put up with the hassle from them on the phone coupled with the worry of the risk of being taken to court, or just pay the money.

What a racket.