Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Backbiter

Excellent article here about how the supposedly simple idea of Brexit is proving ridiculously complicated:
https://vip.politicsmeanspolitics.com/2018/04/26/the-tragedy-of-brexit-when-simple-ideas-meet-complex-realities/

A few extracts:

The tragedy of Brexit: When simple ideas meet complex realities.

..... The great achievement of the Leave campaign was to make Brexit seem simple: both as a choice, and as a process. It was a simple choice !!!8212; taking back control, for who would not want to do that? And a simple process !!!8212; the very next day after a vote to leave the German car industry will tell the EU to give us a great deal; anyway, there are hundreds of countries outside the EU and they manage fine, as did we before we joined. Overall, the Leave message was !!!8216;follow your instinct!!!8217;.....

No matter how simple the Leave campaign made it sound, the reality of Brexit is massively complex, as some of the Brexiters now in government such as David Davis and, to an extent, Gove himself have been forced to recognize. Just undertaking any one aspect of what Brexit involves would be a major task: re-engineering almost the entirety of trade and regulatory policy, and much of security and foreign policy, has all but overwhelmed governmental capacity....

....the real lie of the Leave campaign wasn!!!8217;t the £350M a week for the NHS absurdity, but the promise that it would be easy. There!!!8217;s just no way that any country in the 21st Century can detach itself from whatever its long-term economic and geopolitical anchors may be without sustaining massive damage. It is irrelevant that many countries in the world are not in the EU: those countries have different histories and different economic and geopolitical anchors and would also be damaged were they to abandon them. No developed, democratic country in modern history has ever attempted such a thing.....

...the moment at which their ideas became government policy they fell apart. Such simplifications cannot survive exposure to complex realities. What we have seen since the vote is Brexiters leaping hopefully upon one simple solution after another only to see them crunched out of existence because they can!!!8217;t be translated into workable policy.
....Brexiters proclaim a simple solution, dismiss the warnings of all those who know the complexities and vilify those who issue them, and then !!!8212; either quietly or sulkily !!!8212; are forced to realise that their simplicities were, after all, wrong....

The financial settlement? The EU can go whistle. Then it gets agreed. A deal can be done in months, and we won!!!8217;t ever (need to) agree to a transition period that makes Britain a vassal state. Then the impossibility of the time frame becomes undeniable and a transition period is both sought and agreed.

All that is happening is, at best, damage limitation...

...at best, we!!!8217;ll end up with a messy fudge: nothing like Brexiters promised would be gained, and nothing like as good as what is being lost. This is lose-lose politics....

This, in turn, has set up a situation where the entire country is undertaking this huge change in a spirit of sullen resentment and anger. That is obviously the case for remainers, who have been treated with complete contempt and are simply expected to !!!8216;suck it up!!!8217; even though, the voting statistics suggest, they include the majority of those who actually have to deal with the practicalities of Brexit, whether in the civil service, business or civil society, and the majority of the economically active population. But it is no less true for leavers. They continue to be as angry as ever !!!8212; you only need to spend 10 minutes on social media to see that !!!8212; and believe themselves to have been betrayed or, at the very least, are bemused as to !!!8216;why we can!!!8217;t just get on with it!!!8217;.....

...it is absurd for Brexiters to complain that all would be well if only everyone !!!8216;got behind!!!8217; Brexit. If their simplicities were right, it would need no such enthusiasm for them to be proved so.

iro

Backbiter wrote: »

Excellent article here about how the supposedly simple idea of Brexit is proving ridiculously complicated:
https://vip.politicsmeanspolitics.com/2018/04/26/the-tragedy-of-brexit-when-simple-ideas-meet-complex-realities/

A few extracts:

It is not complicated.

All the complications are created by remoanaics who went over to see the EU to contrive 'issues' to reverse Brexit.

Their motives are very transparent, British people do not like those individuals paid from the public purse who collaborate with a foreign power.

Better poorer and free, than richer and enslaved!

Pauciloquent_1_2

Backbiter wrote: »

Excellent article here about how the supposedly simple idea of Brexit is proving ridiculously complicated .......

Anybody can play that game, so as an alternative to such an obvious Europhile source I will raise you one with this from the opposing viewpoint.
First, a few extracts:

Brexit was never going to be utopia, but it is hardly Armageddon either. It will be bumpy on the way out of the EU, but Brexit will be fine.

I know we’re not allowed to say that the EU needs and wants a deal, because saying so drives poor Remainers totally Tonto, but the indications are that the EU is unhappy with us but does not want to sacrifice the business its nation states do with the UK. They will leave it late, and then a deal is likely in that one minute to midnight style of the EU. Even if there is no deal, it will be messy for both sides, but hardly a catastrophe.

https://reaction.life/seven-reasons-brexit-will-fine/

iro

Staying in the EU is simple

Accept unlimited numbers of new Europeans from Germany

Accept the Euro

Accept our Gold reserves going to Frankfurt

Accept the Houses of Parliament becoming a local council chamber

Accept Brexiteer politicians being arrested for 'sedition' against the EU etat

Accept your new anthem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_cCVLHbzCI

Accept picking up the tabs for any future madness

Accept Britishers dying in the service of an EU Reichs Army

Accept.........

iro

Part of me wants the remoaniacs to succeed in overturning the democratic will of 17.4 million, just to see what happens next..............

Be very careful what you wish for would be my view.

Herzlos

iro wrote: »

Staying in the EU is simple

Accept unlimited numbers of new Europeans from Germany

Accept the Euro

Accept our Gold reserves going to Frankfurt

Accept the Houses of Parliament becoming a local council chamber

Accept Brexiteer politicians being arrested for 'sedition' against the EU etat

Accept your new anthem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_cCVLHbzCI

Accept picking up the tabs for any future madness

Accept Britishers dying in the service of an EU Reichs Army

Accept.........

Do you make your own tinfoil hat's or do you buy them in?

iro

Herzlos wrote: »

Do you make your own tinfoil hat's or do you buy them in?

Avoiding the question/point and indulging in ad hominem proves I am right.

#optiontoremain

#optiontosurrendertotheeu

#FYEU

Zero_Gravitas

iro wrote: »

Part of me wants the remoaniacs to succeed in overturning the democratic will of 17.4 million, just to see what happens next..............

Be very careful what you wish for would be my view.

I think that a significant proportion of the 17.4 million would be secretly quite relieved, as it becomes more obvious with every day that passes that Brexit is one of the greatest acts of self-harm a country has ever perpetrated upon itself.

Additionally, you appear to have finished your post with a threat. Exactly what are you threatening?

Herzlos

Indeed if a majority wants to remain now, which decision is the democratic one?

iro wrote: »

Avoiding the question/point and indulging in ad hominem proves I am right.

#optiontoremain

#optiontosurrendertotheeu

#FYEU

I didn't address the points because they are delusional. None of those concerns will happen if we remain.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

Teleconferencing is not rubbish. But, right now, if you want the best you have to pay.

I have been in demos of the top line stuff. High res screens and interactive desks make it a completely different experience.

This is not the same as a laptop camera and a Skype session however.

Some ex-Indian colleagues are working on a system which syncs up 3D printers, to allow interactive prototyping with remote teams. It opens up a lot of potential.

That's great if you have appropriate equipment at both ends i.e. collaborating with co-workers in other regions. Not much use when talking to customers and no replacement for being face to face.

If you want to sell a million euros worth of widgets to a company, you better be prepared to visit their factory and office or they'll find someone who is.

Maybe in another generation we'll be able to avoid travel, and as a consequence make air travel unaffordable to most tourists. A lot of the flights I'm on are easily about 50% guys in suits that'd rather stay at home.