Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

melanzana

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Which sadly is the wider divide that can be found elsewhere in Europe and over the pond in the USA. The West no longer dominates world affairs. The power is shifting East. The current US version of capitalism has run it's course.

Keep it to the current debate about Brexit maybe, and let's not stray.

Deflection is easy, but arguing the point regarding the UK is not so easy it seems. Blame everyone else but ourselves.

phillw

Pauciloquent_1 wrote: »

I think that those who lost the referendum or some of them, at any rate, have never accepted the result and have tried to undo it by the back door.

It's our democratic right to undo any decision that was made in the past. That is why we get to vote every four years.

Anyone who doesn't accept his is undemocratic. It's the equivalent of picking up the keys to a ferrari from the pavement and saying finders keepers losers weepers.

I just wish leavers would stop moaning all the time about democracy and just accept it

gfplux

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you can visit the US as a tourist without ESTA, it's just a VISA waiver, and you can apply at the border if you fill out the landing card and wait log enough. I've certainly never been asked about an ESTA until I'm in the arrivals checkpoint. I always end of failing to get through on my ESTA and having to join another queue too, which is another concern with ETIAS.

So I'm assuming that with no ETIAS you'll just need to apply for a VISA at the border, which will take ages (because everyone in front of you is doing the same), which is still a lot better than being turned away at the airport and losing your holiday. So this will involve a lot less hassle than it will outrage.

I understand that without a valid ETIAS you will not board.
When the US-ESTA was introduced there was a period when it was advisory so that any problems good be ironed out.
The ETIAS May also have that.
However in due course from Britain you will not be able to board a plane or ferry without an ETIAS.
I understand coach operators are being given a three year window to comply. That might be for coaches crossing a land border in to the Schengen zone. A coach crossing the channel would have the issue of the ferry company.
Penalty’s are very high for carriers who now allow boarding without the correct paperwork. The ETIAS rules will be no different.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

Teleconferencing is still largely garbage. It's ok for some things but not for visiting multi-million euro customers.

I don't spend a thousand quid a week travelling because I enjoy sitting in airports.

Teleconferencing is not rubbish. But, right now, if you want the best you have to pay.

I have been in demos of the top line stuff. High res screens and interactive desks make it a completely different experience.

This is not the same as a laptop camera and a Skype session however.

Some ex-Indian colleagues are working on a system which syncs up 3D printers, to allow interactive prototyping with remote teams. It opens up a lot of potential.

kabayiri

phillw wrote: »

It's our democratic right to undo any decision that was made in the past. That is why we get to vote every four years.
...

And there are standard channels.

Any future political party can stand on a manifesto which commits to a referendum to rejoin the EU.

Every voter will be in no doubt what a vote for that party means.

That's fine. It is no different to the manifesto pledge Cameron mentioned frequently in the Conservative manifesto.

I see some on here moaning about referendums in general. Fair enough, but then don't vote for a party which is offering...a referendum !!

Enterprise_1701C

Hey_Jude_1967 wrote: »

Well you only need to look at the Spanish Border with Gibralter to see that at numerous times over the past 30+yrs where the Spanish Border checks ,which were usually very intermittent have then stopped every UK registered car and searched them, then asked to see passports etc just because they had an issue with the UK govt so maybe the Italian Border agency have some issues with the Croats.

And being in the eu really helped us then didn't it.

phillw wrote: »

It's our democratic right to undo any decision that was made in the past. That is why we get to vote every four years.

Anyone who doesn't accept his is undemocratic. It's the equivalent of picking up the keys to a ferrari from the pavement and saying finders keepers losers weepers.

I just wish leavers would stop moaning all the time about democracy and just accept it

It's every FIVE years,

You sound like a well ingrained European, if the decision doesn't suit then keep having more referendums until it does. We have VOTED, we have decided to leave, end of.

I voted to remain, I have change my mind. If we then decided to stay in they would certainly put all sorts of restrictions on us, we would lose our rebate and would certainly be forced to join the euro, which we would have had to anyway, they can't have a country showing even a spark of independence.

It is not as if the eu actually follow through on their promises, Blair gave away 7 BILLION pounds of our rebate in return for a promise to reform the CAP. It was never reformed, that was back in 2005.

So any promises that the eu make us in the negotiations etc should be taken with a pinch of salt. They have not helped us in our border disputes while we have been in the eu, that can be seen as aiding Spain in their little tantrum about Gibralter, it is obvious they have never wanted us in the eu apart from as cash cows, it is time for us to leave and make our own way, we will be stronger out than in.

Thrugelmir

melanzana wrote: »

Keep it to the current debate about Brexit maybe, and let's not stray.

Brexit is not a singular issue.

kabayiri

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

...
it is obvious they have never wanted us in the eu apart from as cash cows, it is time for us to leave and make our own way, we will be stronger out than in.

We have been heading in a different direction than mainland EU really.

There has been a centre left consensus in EU politics, and we have had more right of centre politics over the last 3 decades.

Commercially, we align with the USA much more than our European cousins. I have seen first hand the differences.

I'm not sure we were a good fit for the direction the EU is going in. The Euro had to be the start of further integration for it to ever work. They knew this from the outset.

iro

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Brexit is not a singular issue.

Quite correct,

Pauciloquent_1_2

melanzana wrote: »

Keep it to the current debate about Brexit maybe, and let's not stray.

Deflection is easy, but arguing the point regarding the UK is not so easy it seems. Blame everyone else but ourselves.

May I politely point you the the subsection title which is "Debate House Prices & the Economy" followed by the thread, which is "Brexit, the economy and house prices".
Since the current debate concerned a wedge in society being introduced by Brexit there was no straying.

Was it perhaps purely that you did not like what was being said which, just to remind you, was that global events are being to a degree mirrored by what is happening in the UK?
Or was it perhaps that as a self-confessed non-resident of the UK but holder of an EU passport you object to a pro-British opinion?
What is your opinion of the wedge which the EU has caused throughout it's member countries as with Geert Wilders in the Netherlands; the AfD in Germany; Austria's FPO; Italy's 5 Star and many more?
You see, it appears that deflection is indeed easy since you considered none of that in your apparent haste to incorrectly apportion blame.

Maybe you should acknowledge that despite Brexit, the UK is in fact more centrist than much of the EU since here we have no populist or extremist parties in our House of Commons, and whatever UKIP MEP's there are (19) will not exist in a year's time.
How much of the EU could you say that for?