Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

StevieJ

lisyloo wrote: »

Do you really believe there are people and businesses spending money on travelling when a phone call or webex session would suffice?
I really don't think there are many.
I collaborate with colleagues in my job many times per hour. I could not do it as well remotely.

Not sure what you mean there?

StevieJ

Lornapink wrote: »

Remainers, in a further referendum, what would be your key messages, given Project Fear is pretty much a laughing stock now?

Brexit campaigning would be dominated by positive messages about embracing change, innovation, exciting new opportunities as well as a great new deal to safeguard EU trade.
What positive messages would you sell?

A new referendum to rubber stamp that great new deal will do, thanks

Herzlos

So it sounds like the brexit team are as concerned with the eu border as some posters on here. No consultation with any tech companies about the Irish border, and NO visits to Dover. It's like they are still hoping it'll magically all go away.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-department-fails-to-consult-on-technical-solutions-to-irish-border/

The Whitehall department in charge of Brexit has failed to approach a single external company to obtain ideas of how technology will help solve the Northern Irish border issue. Brexit Secretary David Davis has repeatedly claimed that a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic can be avoided using new technology. Just last month, Mr Davis stated that “a whole load of new technology” exists to prevent the need for physical checks and controls at the border. Spider webs and magic But in response to a freedom of information request submitted by i, officials at the Department for Exiting the European Union admitted the number of companies it had spoken to about such technology was “nil”. It comes after a report from the Northern Irish Affairs committee last month stated the Government had provided “no evidence” that a technical solution to the border problem could be found. It will heap yet more pressure on Mr Davis, who was accused of trying to build an invisible border “out of nothing but spider-webs and magic”. The Government has committed to creating a “frictionless” border in Ireland after Brexit in a bid to avoid a return to checkpoints last seen during the Troubles. Failure to agree a suitable solution would see Britain revert to the so-called “backstop solution” of keeping Northern Ireland in the customs union and the single market, something vehemently opposed by the Democratic Unionist Party, which is propping up Theresa May’s government. Mr Davis made his first visit to Northern Ireland since he was appointed Brexit Secretary in July 2016 this week, where he claimed he would reach an agreement with the European Union by October that would keep the border “free from physical infrastructure”. But Labour MP and supporter of Open Britain, Chuka Umunna said: “Ministers keep trying to convince us that fantastical sci-fi technology will solve the problem of the Northern Ireland border, but now we learn they haven’t bothered to seek ideas about how this would actually work. “Unless David Davis possesses so far hidden levels of technical knowledge, such as how to build an invisible border out of nothing but spider-webs and magic, this is yet another example of the Government’s staggering lack of preparation for Brexit.” Evidence Tory MP Antoinette Sandbach added: “The Northern Ireland select committee report demonstrated there are no viable technical solutions anywhere in the world. Policy should be made on the basis of evidence.” Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs paid consultancy firm McKinsey & Company to help design the UK’s Brexit customs proposals only for it to be dismissed out of hand by Brussels. In its letter in response DExEU said: “From the Prime Minister’s Article 50 letter and the Northern Ireland and Ireland position paper published in the summer, to the Prime Minister’s speeches on our future relationship with the EU and the December Joint Report – our unwavering commitment has been to avoid any physical infrastructure, including related checks and controls, on the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.”

https://twitter.com/BBCHelenCatt/status/989475219332091904

BBC South East has found that not a single @DExEUgov Minister has yet been to see operations at the Port of #Dover. That’s despite concerns over traffic and a steady stream of other politicians coming here for briefings.

Good times.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

My friend regularly travels to Turkey on business, she says there are no time impacts, that she passes through airports at the same pace as she does EU airports.

Project Fear is almost dead, you guys really have nothing left to sell although you cling to the Irish border issue as a last Remain gasp.

Admittedly I don't visit Turkey very often, which doesn't have freedom of movement, but I pass through Schipol a lot and the EU queues are always a fraction of the length of the non EU. It's hard to say how fast the non EU queue goes because I'm through the EU one so fast. I'd guess there's always about 30 people in the slow queue and I've never been more than 3rd for the fast queue.


ONS just announced UK growth has slowed to it's lowest in a while at 0.1%, according to the radio.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

Remainers, in a further referendum, what would be your key messages, given Project Fear is pretty much a laughing stock now?

Brexit campaigning would be dominated by positive messages about embracing change, innovation, exciting new opportunities as well as a great new deal to safeguard EU trade.
What positive messages would you sell?

A catalogue of Tory and Brexit failures and broken promises should tempted the mind of all but the most die hard brexiteers. It wouldn't even need to be part of the campaign, which could focus on all the benefits we currently get from the eu and how leaving will actually effect people.

How do you propose safeguarding eu trade? Will anyone believe anything that Farage and Johnston this time round, given how fast they back tracked last time?

Herzlos

LHW99 wrote: »

Or perhaps instead of actually travelling, a proportion of these journeys could be completed using the increasingly useful electronic means of communication we have available these days. The journey time could then be used to improve the productivity of the persons converned.
Most international journeys include a significant length of additional time out of the office, over and above the actual meeting times with persons abroad.

Teleconferencing is still largely garbage. It's ok for some things but not for visiting multi-million euro customers.

I don't spend a thousand quid a week travelling because I enjoy sitting in airports.

Herzlos

That certainly sounds unusual. I dare say there could be something there, but I can't see why normally a non-EU queue would be faster, since they usually have more checks on differing passports. EU queues are on a consistent passport with free movement, so it's normally a case of:

Agent: Passport?
Visitor: Here
A: What's the purpose of the visit?
V: Visiting a client.
A: Thanks. Have a nice day.

And that's when you can't use a biometric to get through an automated machine.

Non-EU visitors will often have a VISA that needs checked, as well as some questions to confirm the trip is compliant with the VISA.

So unless I'm horribly mistaken, and the dozen-ish airports I use are unusual somehow, then I just can't see how a non-EU queue can be as good or better than an EU queue, with the exception of internal flights where the vast majority of the passengers are joining the EU queue.

Pauciloquent_1_2

That seems to be remainers style in here.
Andrew Neil's diagnosis for the general remainer affliction is brilliant, calling it "a bad case of Adonis, Campbell, Grayling syndrome".
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/951936/Brexit-news-latest-UK-vote-EU-European-Union-referendum-BBC-Andrew-Neil

Pauciloquent_1_2

ilovehouses wrote: »

Maybe what?
Not so long back 'some' were sticking it to remainers because the UK sat on top of the G7 growth table. The mighty have taken a tumble if the best they can now do is point out we might just pip Italy. Jeez.
We should all know that there are different economical cycles and influences at play but there comes a point when it's difficult to deny that brexit (not an insignificant matter) is having a negative effect. I tried to whisper that last bit because obviously if the economy hears me it'll reduce in size as a result.

Ah well, I suppose at least you didn't use your "and all while we are still in the EU" argument this time although personally I wish you would decide your stance other than by good news = EU, bad news = Brexit.

Here's a reasonable explanation which also notes (unlike you did) that much of the EU has slowed down too.

"We can see that French figures have gone lower as well and Germany has published some really disconcerting news since December.
"Industrial production is down, the Eiffel business confidence indicator is down, a think tank in Dusseldorf says there is an increased chance of recession in Germany – which is very surprising in the engine of the eurozone economies. There is a general slow down."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/952055/Brexit-news-UK-GDP-growth-data-latest-UK-EU-withdrawal-economy-impact-video

Pauciloquent_1_2

mayonnaise wrote: »

Friendly reminder: Brexit has not yet happened, so stop rubbishing people’s fears

https://theconversation.com/friendly-reminder-brexit-has-not-yet-happened-so-stop-rubbishing-peoples-fears-92299

And as a counterpoint the opinion of many leavers as voiced here by Ann Widdecomb:

I think that those who lost the referendum or some of them, at any rate, have never accepted the result and have tried to undo it by the back door.

This bit in particular is of note:

“But let’s be very clear about this. If we remain in either, let alone both, the customs union or the single market, we will still be subject to EU law and we will still not have control over our own borders. That is a simple fact of life.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/952037/Brexit-news-latest-UK-EU-European-Union-date-customs-union-referendum-Ann-Widdecombe

So how about instead "Friendly reminder: Brexit has not yet happened, so stop trying to deny our country's democratic decision to leave".