Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Thrugelmir

vivatifosi wrote: »

I'm a bit contrarian, but that in my book would have made staying in interesting. An opportunity for a stable UK to set the agenda a bit more.

Is anywhere stable? Divergence of views seems the topic of the day.

Rough_Justice

vivatifosi wrote: »

I'm a bit contrarian, but that in my book would have made staying in interesting. An opportunity for a stable UK to set the agenda a bit more.

Interesting?
Maybe so and I understand what you mean but even if Brexit hadn't been decided when it was, much of what is happening would probably have lead to Brexit sooner or later any way.
Here are just a few examples.

The UK were not alone in opposing Pesco, not only because of the possibility of undermining NATO but because of history.
The UK would always oppose itself adopting the Euro and before anyone mentions vetoes, the EU have history of working around those.
Talking of which, how long do you think it would be before the EU's increasing use of qualified majority voting became a problem?

Regardless of personal opinion the fact is that many in the UK were unhappy with the EU already for a myriad of reasons, as seen since the referendum in both media and in forums like this.
From these it looks like it was the opinion of many of these that the EU already barely tolerated the UK and rather than setting agenda's within the EU it was to them apparent that the EU often did the bare minimum to keep the UK happy in order to keep the money flowing from them.

mrginge

ilovehouses wrote: »

Perhaps there's been a realisation that the best way to get the EU to compromise is to present a united front so the EU can't play the cabinet members off against each other?

What they’ve only just twigged onto this?
People who have been in politics for a long long time don’t understand how politics works?

However, call me a cynic but there was nothing in May's speech which could account for Rees-Mogg's dramatic softening of tone. There's a vacancy for deputy PM though.......

So JRM isn’t capable of figuring out how to play the game when it comes to the EU but is more than capable of playing it when it comes to getting himself promoted?

If he ends up as deputy PM then that’s pretty much curtains for TM. Soubry et al will have little option but to vote against the govt in the trade bill. It’s the kiss of death for Tory compromise. Maybe you’re right and TM’s happy to sign her own death warrant but I doubt it.

All these remainers are getting in a flap because they thought she’d u-turned and now they realise two important things . Firstly she said not a lot, second the eu aren’t in the mood for softening at all.
People need to realise that the ‘agreement’ the govt reached was about the five tests. That was the first section of the speech. Anything she said after that was noise. The tests are the measurable and they will be what *any* type of deal is judged on. It was actually a speech aimed to a domestic audience rather than an EU one.

JRM and pals know perfectly well that if the EU don’t budge then it won’t be them that has to chase votes, it’ll be voters opinions that harden as a response. TM has a benchmark that she can throw right back at parliament, the electorate and the EU if she’s not getting anywhere. And if the EU do budge then as long as it fulfills those five tests then team JRM still get *most* of what they wanted in the first place.

Rough_Justice

ilovehouses wrote: »

You're still adding too many eggs
Sounds a bit complacent to me.

Complacent?
Of Europhiles in here still crying their adoration despite extremism you mean?
I agree, at last you are seeing the light.

mrginge

ilovehouses wrote: »

It's now 2 days since May's speech and still the cabinet aren't briefing against each other. That team building day at Chequers must have really done the trick. Maybe they had a bouncy castle.

Good to see you’re keeping the level of ‘debate’ up to a high standard.

Thrugelmir

ilovehouses wrote: »

It's now 2 days since May's speech and still the cabinet aren't briefing against each other. That team building day at Chequers must have really done the trick. Maybe they had a bouncy castle.

There comes a point when the talking has to end and taking action starts. Sands of time are running out. Now getting to the business end. All the grandstanding has to end.

cogito

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There comes a point when the talking has to end and taking action starts. Sands of time are running out. Now getting to the business end. All the grandstanding has to end.

Tell that to Juncker, Barnier, Selmayr and Verhofstadt.

Matt_L

Theophile wrote: »

You're wrong.
Hard brexit is looking increasingly unlikely. You might have noticed the 'no deal is better than a bad deal' mantra has been quietly dropped.

Filo25 wrote: »

I was just thinking yesterday it had been a while since I had heard that!

Well TM repeated this again this morning on the Marr show, just incase you missed it:)

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

I just find it a bit odd that a nothingy Theresa May speech marked the end of (I hope) the Tory party grandstanding.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at the Chequers awayday. We'll probably have to wait for the autobiographies to find out what was agreed.

The reason for your "end of the Tory party grandstanding" is simple. Friday's speech has left the EU caught by their proverbial short'n'curlies. No need now, see?

IMHO much rather an autobiography than any made-up interpretations. Especially if they're anything like the usual remainer ones wherever Brexit is concerned.

wunferall

Matt_L wrote: »

Well TM repeated this again this morning on the Marr show, just incase you missed it:)

That's twice then, Friday & today. No wonder the remoaners are moaning. BRINO my @ rse.