Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

wunferall

Tromking wrote: »

It does say a lot when you see the complete lack of EU and indeed mainland European Governments introspection into the reasons why the UK was ‘lost’ to the EU. I think it too simplistic to say the UK was never emotionally connected to the project in the first place.
Perhaps when the negotiations are over and things are tad less adversarial between us, that period of introspection can occur.

I would like to believe that those holding positions of power within the EU are capable of introspection. Sadly seeing who currently holds such positions together with the candidacy for the near future (of Juncker's position for example) I do not hold out much hope for that. Which is a shame for the EU, regardless of personal opinion of that organisation.

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

Yes, yet more unnecessarily derogatory comment from another senior Eurocrat. It's not difficult to see where so many remainers here get their belligerence from. Why Tusk feels it so necessary to use such strong terminolgy as "pure illusion" when surely a simple "I can't see that being acceptable" or similar would have been amply sufficient only proves both how unwilling these Eurocrats are to do a deal and just how nasty they really are.

Thank God we are leaving this unfriendly, unwieldy and objectionable lot IMHO.

The EU told on day 1 which options were open to us and haven't budged a milimeter. We know they won't accept this idea. So it is pure illusion and won't be acceptable.

Given that it's clearly going to be rejected and is clearly a move to placate party extremes, why shouldn't Tusk call it out for the waste of time it Is?

It doesn't matter if they are being belligerent or we are being incompetent; we need to suggest a deal they'll accept, and we already know what deals they are.

gfplux

wunferall wrote: »

Yes, yet more unnecessarily derogatory comment from another senior Eurocrat. It's not difficult to see where so many remainers here get their belligerence from. Why Tusk feels it so necessary to use such strong terminolgy as "pure illusion" when surely a simple "I can't see that being acceptable" or similar would have been amply sufficient only proves both how unwilling these Eurocrats are to do a deal and just how nasty they really are.

Thank God we are leaving this unfriendly, unwieldy and objectionable lot IMHO.

Perhaps Boris instead of saying, GO WHISTLE, he could have said I don’t think so. Even if in the end he was proven wrong.

gfplux

Tromking wrote: »

It does say a lot when you see the complete lack of EU and indeed mainland European Governments introspection into the reasons why the UK was !!!8216;lost!!!8217; to the EU. I think it too simplistic to say the UK was never emotionally connected to the project in the first place.
Perhaps when the negotiations are over and things are tad less adversarial between us, that period of introspection can occur.

So you dont except that for +40 years Britain was a reluctant member of the EU. That much of the media made much fun of news from the EU. That many politicians were ambivalent about membership or were frightened of any backlash if they came out too strongly for EU membership.

Frankly it is amazing how much ink from posters here is being used discussing an organisation Britain is leaving.
Or even why Britain has decided to leave.
Britain is where it is. . The EU is where it is.

Frankly when Britain has left the EU having expressed regret at Britains decision to leave multiple times since June 2016 will have to move on with their business as will Britains Government who have spent far too much time in the last 18 months badly focused on Brexit and not getting on with the day job.

This thread is about Brexit. Not about the EU.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

The EU told on day 1 which options were open to us and haven't budged a milimeter. We know they won't accept this idea. So it is pure illusion and won't be acceptable.

Given that it's clearly going to be rejected and is clearly a move to placate party extremes, why shouldn't Tusk call it out for the waste of time it Is?

It doesn't matter if they are being belligerent or we are being incompetent; we need to suggest a deal they'll accept, and we already know what deals they are.

From what I can tell the EU are offering take it or leave and that is not a negotiation. Of course it could all be bluff but if it isnt we will leave on WTO terms, because the government know leave in name only that is not what people voted for and it will cause an outcry and a great deal of mistrust.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

From what I can tell the EU are offering take it or leave and that is not a negotiation.

No, they are willing to negotiate. We have told them what our red lines are which we will not move away from "free movement, contributing to the EU" and they have told us what that means.

If you think negotiating means giving people what they want, then I want to negotiate buying your house for £1. Why won't you negotiate with me?????? It's what _I_ want!

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ukcarper

Yes FOM is a UK red line and its not a normal requirement for a trade deal as is having to pay for privileged, so who isnt negotiating.

I voted remain and have been disappointed by both sides, but I unlike many politicians who say they accept the result I actually do.

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Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

From what I can tell the EU are offering take it or leave and that is not a negotiation. Of course it could all be bluff but if it isnt we will leave on WTO terms, because the government know leave in name only that is not what people voted for and it will cause an outcry and a great deal of mistrust.

They gave us a chart of different options. Canada being the best one that doesn't violate the red lines May is bound to.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

They gave us a chart of different options. Canada being the best one that doesn't violate the red lines May is bound to.

I expect or should I say hope that we will get something similar to that hopefully including services but I dont see why it has to be an exact replica.

Rough_Justice

Herzlos wrote: »

They gave us a chart of different options. Canada being the best one that doesn't violate the red lines May is bound to.

Have they really?
Maybe you could show us an official offering from the EU?
"Official", not heresay from one Eurocrat which is otherwise unverified.