Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

Chill Moby, its all part of the rough and tumble of negotiations.:)

Hope you are right Tromking.....but it seems to me that it's a cobbled together plan to keep the cabinet together and one which will crumble as soon as the EU negotiators explain that its fantasy.

cogito

Moby wrote: »

Hope you are right Tromking.....but it seems to me that it's a cobbled together plan to keep the cabinet together and one which will crumble as soon as the EU negotiators explain that its fantasy.

And right on cue, Tusk has popped up and said exactly that. It makes a change from Barnier and Verhofstadt I suppose.

wunferall

cogito wrote: »

And right on cue, Tusk has popped up and said exactly that. It makes a change from Barnier and Verhofstadt I suppose.

Yes, yet more unnecessarily derogatory comment from another senior Eurocrat. It's not difficult to see where so many remainers here get their belligerence from. Why Tusk feels it so necessary to use such strong terminolgy as "pure illusion" when surely a simple "I can't see that being acceptable" or similar would have been amply sufficient only proves both how unwilling these Eurocrats are to do a deal and just how nasty they really are.

Thank God we are leaving this unfriendly, unwieldy and objectionable lot IMHO.

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

All the stuff that is definitely going to happen which you don't believe will.

It would take too long to list it all & you know it already.

Don't worry, I don't actually expect you to change your mind. It's the only way remainers will keep the advantage.

You again avoid an answer I note. Just as I note that we are still waiting for other answers as yet not given. Just what "stuff that is definitely going to happen" can you list. I strongly suggest you consider your use of the word "definitely" there.

People here seem to like long lists so no excuses please. Go for it. It should be interesting since the only certainty about the future for anybody is their demise, as comes to all of us. EVERYTHING else is variable and more-so where Brexit is involved.

So here's your chance to prove that your knowledge is superior to that of Brexiters as well as of logical-thinking people everywhere. I wont hold my breath waiting for you to explain what is DEFINITELY going to result from Brexit because the truth is that nobody knows.

wunferall

I see we're back to the use of commentary pieces from media again. Can anybody explain why one individual's opinion should be any more worthy than that of another's?

This is not mere thoughts of another. It is evidence of how the EU are struggling to come to terms with a huge contributor leaving their midst.

Members have been in disagreement on how to compensate for funding loss after Britain's planned 2019 departure.

Germany and France have warned any funding cuts to EU programmes could damage efforts to tackle illegal immigration and terrorism.

Speaking after the meeting, Mr Tusk said leaders had agreed to spend more on security, as well as fighting illegal migration in their next long-term budget.

He said many of the EU leaders were ready to contribute more to the pot, but acknowledged others were less forthcoming.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43169054

cogito

wunferall wrote: »

I see we're back to the use of commentary pieces from media again. Can anybody explain why one individual's opinion should be any more worthy than that of another's?

This is not mere thoughts of another. It is evidence of how the EU are struggling to come to terms with a huge contributor leaving their midst.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43169054

It's perfectly clear which countries don't want to receive less from the EU - the usual suspects who've never paid a penny in but although Tusk says that a few countries are willing to pay more, he fails to identify them. Isn't that odd?

Filo25

wunferall wrote: »

Yes, yet more unnecessarily derogatory comment from another senior Eurocrat. It's not difficult to see where so many remainers here get their belligerence from. Why Tusk feels it so necessary to use such strong terminolgy as "pure illusion" when surely a simple "I can't see that being acceptable" or similar would have been amply sufficient only proves both how unwilling these Eurocrats are to do a deal and just how nasty they really are.

Thank God we are leaving this unfriendly, unwieldy and objectionable lot IMHO.

It's not difficult to understand their frustration when you understand the rumoured British position which is finally being setout nearly halfway through the Article 50 period is one that the EU have already said isn't acceptable to them.

It seems May's focus at Chequers was more on coming up with something that was acceptable to both wings of the Tory party and ignoring the bit about producing something that could realistically be a basis for negotiation with the EU.

The base models for various forms of relationship with the EU are already out there, to expect the EU to offer us more than the other models while not offering them more in return seems as unrealistic now as it did a year ago.

Hopefully this is just a bit of bluster for domestic consumption and there is a more realistic idea of where we want to end up underlying it.

Tromking

wunferall wrote: »

........ It is evidence of how the EU are struggling to come to terms with a huge contributor leaving their midst.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43169054

It does say a lot when you see the complete lack of EU and indeed mainland European Governments introspection into the reasons why the UK was ‘lost’ to the EU. I think it too simplistic to say the UK was never emotionally connected to the project in the first place.
Perhaps when the negotiations are over and things are tad less adversarial between us, that period of introspection can occur.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

It's not difficult to understand their frustration when you understand the rumoured British position which is finally being setout nearly halfway through the Article 50 period is one that the EU have already said isn't acceptable to them.

Frustration that they are not able to impose their terms totally on the UK. From an inside perspective. Brussels (as in the civil service) has a distinct political tone even on a personal level. Not the neutrality that one finds in London. Where people on the whole do work for the benefit of the country. Putting personal viewpoints aside in their daily work lives.

wunferall

Filo25 wrote: »

It's not difficult to understand their frustration when you understand the rumoured British position which is finally being setout nearly halfway through the Article 50 period is one that the EU have already said isn't acceptable to them.

It seems May's focus at Chequers was more on coming up with something that was acceptable to both wings of the Tory party and ignoring the bit about producing something that could realistically be a basis for negotiation with the EU.

The base models for various forms of relationship with the EU are already out there, to expect the EU to offer us more than the other models while not offering them more in return seems as unrealistic now as it did a year ago.

Hopefully this is just a bit of bluster for domestic consumption and there is a more realistic idea of where we want to end up underlying it.

I have to disagree. The UK invoked article 50 which sets out a framework for the UK to leave the EU. In Aricle 50 there is NOTHING set out about those wishing to leave needing to set out any "position", what it DOES say and very clearly is that the EU "shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union."

Pay particular heed to the "setting out arrangements for it's withdrawal" wording there. It looks to me like the EU are dodging their stated responsibility when instead they should be setting out their own arrangements. Also this has been discussed in the DT Brexit thread. You might like to read from say post 7295 onwards and especially https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5725685
from the thread ( https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5725685 )

Bluntly, the objective which was leaving the EU is clear. The rest must be negotiated and to suggest that you, I or anybody else outside of those who need to know are party to the negotiating strategy of either side OR that such such details by necessity are not sensitive and thus confidential is to be at best naive. Media sell news and that is all that you have fallen subject to, media gossip. We all know that just because they suggest what they think it does not make such things fact.

So yes it is just bluster for domestic consumption, on that we can agree. There will be much more of it to come.