Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

ukcarper

gfplux wrote: »

While it might be one of the hundreds of items to be discussed, negotiated and agreed between Britain and the EU common sense and security suggests that the EU are unlikely to give Britain a pass on the ETIAS as it is about monitoring everyone who would enter the Schengen area from anywhere in the world.
It’s not the EU demanding but the EU putting in place a security step that you can decide not to take and therefore not visit the Schengen area. The USA did the same a few years ago.
As you might know many Americans and Australians visit a number of Country’s during a single trip. I don’t think they will be setting out for those trips in the future without spending the nominal amount of money for a ETIAS.
There is a small possibility they won’t make the trip at all meaning everyone misses out on the money those tourists would spend.
Very few people have decided not to travel to the USA because they had to apply for a ESTA.

There is no reason to introduce it for U.K. or are U.K. citizens more likely to be a threat to security now we are leaving.

Enterprise_1701C

gfplux wrote: »

While it might be one of the hundreds of items to be discussed, negotiated and agreed between Britain and the EU common sense and security suggests that the EU are unlikely to give Britain a pass on the ETIAS as it is about monitoring everyone who would enter the Schengen area from anywhere in the world.
It’s not the EU demanding but the EU putting in place a security step that you can decide not to take and therefore not visit the Schengen area. The USA did the same a few years ago.
As you might know many Americans and Australians visit a number of Country’s during a single trip. I don’t think they will be setting out for those trips in the future without spending the nominal amount of money for a ETIAS.
There is a small possibility they won’t make the trip at all meaning everyone misses out on the money those tourists would spend.
Very few people have decided not to travel to the USA because they had to apply for a ESTA.

This is rather like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Enterprise_1701C

ukcarper wrote: »

There is no reason to introduce it for U.K. or are U.K. citizens more likely to be a threat to security now we are leaving.

We had the nerve to vote to leave, a heinous crime indeed, they really do not want us there fomenting discontent, someone else might actually give their people the chance to decide if they actually want to be in the eu as it is today.

Rough_Justice

Moby wrote: »

The EU parliament is elected.

Are you being deliberately disingenuous or are you just ignorant as to how the EU works?

Firstly the EU Parliament has MEP's from 28 countries.
With that so far?
Good; then how does our one membership from 28 equate to our election of any EU decision when these are chosen (if they chosen at all; not all are) by majority agreement of the entire 28? You did know that almost all decisions now are by this majority and that not much can now be vetoed by one dissenter, didn't you?

Secondly it is the EU Commission which proposes new legislation and is responsible for the day-to-day running of the EU. NOT the EU Parliament who simply [STRIKE]bicker about[/STRIKE] vote upon the Commission's proposals.
Show us where we voted for our EU Commissioner, let alone any of the other 27 or President Juncker.

I've seen grumblings about our own House of Lords yet some remainers think it perfectly acceptable to have this other much more hugely expensive additional overly-bureaucratic EU layer on top!

Within our own United Kingdom we have some Scots dissatisfied still with Westminster; Irish & Welsh too.
In fact even with England there are divisions.
But we have democracy for the whole UK.
As a part of 28 nations, each with their own aspirations and priorities and where some club together deliberately to obtain a majority needed to carry a vote is not democratic for the UK.
This is again at least partially why so many want to leave the EU.

sevenhills

Rough_Justice wrote: »

Good; then how does our one membership from 28 equate to our election of any EU decision when these are chosen (if they chosen at all; not all are) by majority agreement of the entire 28? You did know that almost all decisions now are by this majority and that not much can now be vetoed by one dissenter, didn't you?

What has the EU Parliament voted for, that you think a UK Parliament will do differently?

Incredible_1

sevenhills wrote: »

What has the EU Parliament voted for, that you think a UK Parliament will do differently?

Seriously?
:rotfl:

Dunno about that poster but personally I think that there are that many it's difficult to know where to start, from VAT and what attracts it to the Working Time Directive. From deciding how much power a vacuum cleaner consumes to reforming CAP, there are so many which are unnecessary and often counter-productive that not only would a UK Parliament do it differently but in honesty ANY parliament worth it's salt would do it differently.

Almost certainly without moving from one city to another on a regular basis at great expense just for the appeasement of a member, too.

Thrugelmir

sevenhills wrote: »

What has the EU Parliament voted for, that you think a UK Parliament will do differently?

UK Parliament can propose legislation............that's a vast difference. Called a Private Members bill.

Moby

Rough_Justice wrote: »

Are you being deliberately disingenuous or are you just ignorant as to how the EU works?

Firstly the EU Parliament has MEP's from 28 countries.
With that so far?
Good; then how does our one membership from 28 equate to our election of any EU decision when these are chosen (if they chosen at all; not all are) by majority agreement of the entire 28? You did know that almost all decisions now are by this majority and that not much can now be vetoed by one dissenter, didn't you?

Secondly it is the EU Commission which proposes new legislation and is responsible for the day-to-day running of the EU. NOT the EU Parliament who simply [STRIKE]bicker about[/STRIKE] vote upon the Commission's proposals.
Show us where we voted for our EU Commissioner, let alone any of the other 27 or President Juncker.

I've seen grumblings about our own House of Lords yet some remainers think it perfectly acceptable to have this other much more hugely expensive additional overly-bureaucratic EU layer on top!

Within our own United Kingdom we have some Scots dissatisfied still with Westminster; Irish & Welsh too.
In fact even with England there are divisions.
But we have democracy for the whole UK.
As a part of 28 nations, each with their own aspirations and priorities and where some club together deliberately to obtain a majority needed to carry a vote is not democratic for the UK.
This is again at least partially why so many want to leave the EU.

Knew all this already thanks. Your simplistic exposition adds nothing and only a fool would think that you could compare the constitution of a national democracy to that of a Union of States. They do different things mate. You wouldn't compare the Welsh Senedd with the UN would you! Last time I looked we still had our parliament, (Scotland and Wales now have their versions), we still have elections, Scotland recently had a referendum to decide it's future....these decision making bodies have not been supplanted or replaced. I seem to remember an election last June?
It's called subsidiarity.....in case you are ignorant of it ....it means that decisions are made at the lowest possible level i.e council, regional, national, international.

To now explain further....some of us believe that many of the decisions we make cross national boundaries and are therefore best dealt with internationally. We believe that such international co-operation is beneficial and enhances all our lives. Further more if you know your history you will agree that Europe has a pretty dire record when it comes to war and conflict. Some of us have therefore believed that the only way to guarantee the end of such conflict would be through much greater co-operation internationally, economically and diplomatically. This led to the post war bi-partisan agreements of greater economic co-operation between the two big players on the continent, France and Germany. We chose to not become part of this because rather stupidly with hindsight we still thought we had an empire to rule. Partition in India and Suez rather put all that to rest I think!......but looking to the future I for one care little for national boundaries between nations. I believe that has led to innumerable wars, conflict and is basically going to crumble under the advance of technology. I also believe that the EU is the best means to ensure that future conflict in Europe is dealt with constructively and through institutions brought in to resolve differences. I think the evidence since 1945 is that the institution is on the whole doing pretty well. I also prefer it, despite the economic consequences (which are temporary), that the countries of eastern Europe are under the orbit of Putin's Russia rather than in the EU.

Also finally there is no evidence that being in the EU has damaged the operation of democracy within the UK. Can you name me one area of policy where decisions of national relevance have been blocked?

The idea that Britain's future is best served by withdrawing from
the EU and it's objectives and going it alone is the irresponsible delusion of usually aged fantasists. Look at the leaders of this group..... who in their right mind would choose to hitch their wagon to idiots like Nigel Farage, Henry Bolton, Boris Johnston, Michael Gove, John Redwood etc. Through ignorance and pride we are being led by such types into a cul-de-sac of irrelevance.:mad:

Moby

For some reason I cannot edit my post above....I meant to say however that I prefer the countries of Eastern Europe are in the EU rather than under the orbit Putin's Russia.

gfplux

ukcarper wrote: »

There is no reason to introduce it for U.K. or are U.K. citizens more likely to be a threat to security now we are leaving.

It is nothing to do with wether British Citizens are more or less a threat. It is all about monitoring EVERYONE who is going to travel into the Schengen Zone. Britain is not and never was in the Schengen zone.
Would you expect the USA to exempt Britain from the ESTA scene.

In fact we should expect Britain to introduce a similar scheme when they can afford to build the system. As I previously mentioned this surely should/will be linked to the “settled status” system that has to be brought in for the +3 million EU citizens living/working in Britain.