Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

So you're ok with freedom of movement then? And your objection to the eu is purely sovereignty?

If you’ve been following this thread you will see I voted remain and personally am ok with freedom of movement but the majority aren’t. There is a big difference between people from EU coming here and FOM, I can’t be sure but I don’t think the majority of brexit voters are opposed to EU citizens visiting UK.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

I can’t be sure but I don’t think the majority of brexit voters are opposed to EU citizens visiting UK.

Well some of the brexit voters vocally don't like seeing too many brown faces & EU citizens are mostly white. So that probably won't cause a problem for them.

For the rest it's also ok if people come here to give us money or nice things, but it is a problem if they want equality & violate our privilege.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Well some of the brexit voters vocally don't like seeing too many brown faces & EU citizens are mostly white. So that probably won't cause a problem for them.

For the rest it's also ok if people come here to give us money or nice things, but it is a problem if they want equality & violate our privilege.

Some yes but you are tarring all of them with the same brush. The majority of my friends voted leave and none of them fit your description the problem with some of the remain posters arguing here don’t accept that there are legitimate reason for voting brexit and should concentrate on disputing those rather than trying to make out that all brexit voters are all xenophobic raciests.

Moby

https://www.channel4.com/news/by/gary-gibbon/blogs/exclusive-eus-negotiating-guidelines-for-the-brexit-transition

The EU will make us accept a Brexit on their terms. It seems that it will be a Brexit in name only and we will do as they say.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

Some yes but you are tarring all of them with the same brush. The majority of my friends voted leave and none of them fit your description the problem with some of the remain posters arguing here don’t accept that there are legitimate reason for voting brexit and should concentrate on disputing those rather than trying to make out that all brexit voters are all xenophobic raciests.

There are no legitimate reasons for voting brexit, there are only seductive reasons which appeal to peoples latent xenophobia. It's unfortunately a very normal human behaviour to be xenophobic, but it's one of the things society normally tries to overcome (like stealing, murder etc). It's incredibly easy to appeal to that xenophobia and when you do it changes your perception completely, so you won't necessarily be aware of it. You're then left with xenophobia is bad, I am not bad, therefore I am not xenophobic.

ukcarper wrote: »

There is no reason to introduce it for U.K. or are U.K. citizens more likely to be a threat to security now we are leaving.

They are just as likely after as before. However we currently accept their criminals and they accept ours in return. When we stop accepting their criminals, it would only seem fair as we are no longer accepting our fair share of the burden. It's also unclear quite how much data sharing is going to happen post brexit. It will probably continue for terrorism, but for other criminals it's tricky because the EU has strict rules on human rights which we are likely to violate (and we know that is true because the main reason Theresa May has given to get rid of the ECJ is to violate their human rights).

I don't know if you meant it, but your argument sounds xenophobic. As if UK citizens are superior and unlikely to be a threat while EU citizens are a threat.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

There are no legitimate reasons for voting brexit, there are only seductive reasons which appeal to peoples latent xenophobia. It's unfortunately a very normal human behaviour to be xenophobic, but it's one of the things society normally tries to overcome (like stealing, murder etc). It's incredibly easy to appeal to that xenophobia and when you do it changes your perception completely, so you won't necessarily be aware of it. You're then left with xenophobia is bad, I am not bad, therefore I am not xenophobic.



They are just as likely after as before. However we currently accept their criminals and they accept ours in return. When we stop accepting their criminals, it would only seem fair as we are no longer accepting our fair share of the burden. It's also unclear quite how much data sharing is going to happen post brexit. It will probably continue for terrorism, but for other criminals it's tricky because the EU has strict rules on human rights which we are likely to violate (and we know that is true because the main reason Theresa May has given to get rid of the ECJ is to violate their human rights).

I don't know if you meant it, but your argument sounds xenophobic. As if UK citizens are superior and unlikely to be a threat while EU citizens are a threat.

You really do have a negative and one sided view. When I voted in Referendum I listened to both sides and reached my conclusion and voted accordingly, I’m not sure all of people here did the same nothing is ever black and white.

cogito

ukcarper wrote: »

I’m not sure all of people here did the same nothing is ever black and white.

You need to be careful before making comments that some might perceive as racist.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

You need to be careful before making comments that some might perceive as racist.

Not even your straw man would find that racist.

gfplux

ukcarper wrote: »

So if it’s purely about monitoring people going in and out of Schengen scheme it would have applied to us if we were still in EU.

You are completely correct. Don’t be upset, it’s just about security.

ukcarper

gfplux wrote: »

You are completely correct. Don’t be upset, it’s just about security.

So leaving has had no impact also I don’t think it about security it’s more about preventing people from staying on.