Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

Please don’t make these false allegations of Country’s suspending Schengen.
If the site of security leads you to believe this sort of thing what do you make of armed police officers at Heathrow and Victoria Station.

I really thought that false claims were a thing of the past. I thought we were all getting more grown up about our posts. I am certainly trying.

Google it and then come back and tell me who is making false claims.

Then there's this:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/11/17/greeks-treated-as-second-class-eu-citizens-at-german-airports/

Moby

vivatifosi wrote: »

It cuts both ways Moby. For every Brexit supporter who dismisses the benefits of the EU, There's a Remain supporter who dismisses the benefits of the UK.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

In what way does leaving the EU enhance our security then? It's hard to see how opting out of the EU enhances our influence over what happens on the continent.

Moby

gfplux wrote: »

The EU-ETIAS was being put together well before a Britain decided to go through the complex process of leaving the EU.
It should be assumed the UK-ETIAS will be introduced at a similar time as the EU version. No one should be under the impression this is about Brexit.
More information Here.
https://etias.com
And Here
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/homeaffairs/files/what-we-do/policies/european-agenda-security/fact-sheets/docs/20161116/factsheet_-_etias_en.pdf

Just what we need more red tape to fill in before travelling and pay through the nose for it too:mad:

vivatifosi

Moby wrote: »

Have to say it's all a bit desperate now. All the Brexiteers are doing is pointing out flaws in the EU and saying it's all going to come crashing down and we're better off out etc. Bottom line that's all just wishful thinking which seems to be hoping for political upheaval which quite frankly is rather irresponsible and takes no account of the positives the EU has actually achieved such as bringing in the Eastern European countries into the west's orbit instead of leaving them to a resurgent Russia under Putin; no credit is given to the way in which war and squabbling has been avoided between us, Germany, France, Spain for the longest time in history; no credit for the wonderful freedoms of free movement we have had for so long travelling to truely wonderful places...........but we are going to get our blue and gold passports back......so depressing. I'm sure the EU will be gladly rid of us and it won't be long before we realise that we we won't be returning to our role bestriding the world as the workshop of the world......We'll just be a second rate country on the edge of the continent scrabbling around for scraps of influence and using a long faded history to puff ourselves up when morale gets low.

Moby wrote: »

In what way does leaving the EU enhance our security then? It's hard to see how opting out of the EU enhances our influence over what happens on the continent.

As you can see now I have posted both of your posts next to each other, I was pointing out that you were arguing that Brexiteers can't say anything good about the EU. My post was not about security.

I was merely making the point that there is no point saying that the Brexiteers are wrong to say that there is nothing right with the EU if your response is to say that everything is wrong with the UK.

Reality is more subtle. There are good points about the EU, there are bad points about the EU. There are good points about the UK, there are bad points about the UK.

However, as you asked about security, it makes sense for the UK and EU to work together on security, just like our membership of Five Eyes and NATO makes sense.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

In what way does leaving the EU enhance our security then? It's hard to see how opting out of the EU enhances our influence over what happens on the continent.

6,000 EU citizens are thought to have gone and fight the ISIS cause last year.

If just 5% of those who return get to wander freely, it creates a massive security headache.

I'm afraid the world has changed since the EU idealists came up with this free movement ideology.

But...if you have an alternate method of keeping EU citizens safe from bombs and rogue vans, I am all ears.

gfplux

Moby wrote: »

Just what we need more red tape to fill in before travelling and pay through the nose for it too:mad:

The USA started it and the rest of the world is following. Sadly we live in difficult times.

gfplux

Moby wrote: »

Just what we need more red tape to fill in before travelling and pay through the nose for it too:mad:

We live in dangerous times.

Arklight

gfplux wrote: »

We live in dangerous times.

Actually we live in the safest most stable times of any point in human history. A Daily Mail reader's chances of being killed by a Muslim terrorist are minute, and there really isn't much else likely to happen to them. Unless being red faced and shouting about foreigners causes some kind of coronary.

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

We live in dangerous times.

Merkel's open door policy certainly hasn't contributed positively to the situation.

tracey3596

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Merkel's open door policy certainly hasn't contributed positively to the situation.

It certainly has not and this is why she is in the current situation, struggling to form a coalition.

It is also a major factor leading to EU divisions. Maybe we should all be congratulating Merkel on causing so much discontent within the EU?

Austrian far-right triumph inspires nationalists in EU

Hundreds of thousands of refugees and migrants passed through Austria, and many applied for asylum here. The FPÖ's anti-migrant message struck a chord with voters - and was also taken up by the conservatives under Sebastian Kurz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42433667

Then have a read of this which explains a little more about the pressures facing the EU:
"Can Europe Enforce Its Founding Ideals?

The union is facing pressure from right and left as it tries to preserve its values."


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/12/european-union-poland-catalonia/549137/