Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Tromking

ilovehouses wrote: »

We voted for people to represent us and make these decisions on our behalf.

In the absence of a referendum on a specific issue if you don't like the decisions they make you vote for someone who shares your views and suck it up in the meantime.

Democracy can be a pain.

Indeed.
The country did suck it up and at the first available opportunity it rewarded the political class who made those decisions on our behalf by opting to leave.
The referendum happened because too many people were voting for UKIP.
The trick for our elected representatives was to take the majority of the people with them as they took us deeper into the EU, they patently failed in that task. Hence Brexit.

System

Show me where I signed up for democracy!!

gfplux

tracey3596 wrote: »

Show us where we signed up to that?
We signed up to become a member of the Common Market, NOT the EU as it has become - and that is why now we have voted to leave. We don't want to be a member.
So again, show us where we, the UK public, signed up to belong to the EU?

Still, at least you do acknowledge that the EU is indeed "full of rules" - many of which are at best a minor irritation but also some which prove to be major stumbling blocks such as the ability to forge independent trade deals. Another may be in rules surrounding the judiciary system; see Poland. Or the imposition of unwanted terms; see Poland, Hungary & the Czech Republic re: migration.

1) Already asked and answered by Ballard
2) The British public have voted to go through the difficult, painful and complex withdrawal from the EU
3) Yes those everyday rules of the society we live in.

Yes Democracy is difficult. Club rules don't always suite everyone. That's how society functions or not. Just ask the jay walker, the dog owners who don't pick up, the people who drop litter, the red light jumper, the speeder etc, etc, what they think of rules.

Corporal_Perkins

ilovehouses wrote: »

The UK parliament could've decided to leave the EU on any day of the last 40 years. Your anger should really be directed at them rather than the club who didn't ask you for your personal opinion on everything. They probably thought you were too busy being angry about vacuum cleaners and chocolate.

So you'd rather not reply to the points I raised in my post ?.. That's fine ,I'll just take it that you agree with me that EU countries ignore EU rules when it suits them and the EU doesn't in fact protect Western EU countries businesses/citizens.

I actually do have a major issue with previous UK govt's of both colours who have taken the UK into deeper integration without the backing of the people they supposedly represent. The Political elite in this country and indeed the EU is nothing short of dire.

I'm glad we agree........ Bit early for me but :beer:

gfplux

tracey3596 wrote: »

Indeed we will be able to make our own rules.

Even you must surely appreciate that this is far easier with one member negotiating rather than 28 (soon to be 27)? Why else do you thing that EU deals of any type take so long? CETA for example took over seven years.
Even a major disruption such as the "migrant crisis" leaves such a conglomeration of nations hobbled and unable to respond effectively in a timely manner; the EU are now approaching their third year of this particular fiasco and are no nearer to a solution now than they were when it began. How much of the EU is praying that Turkey do not renege on their deal which has cost the EU how many billions so far?

No, nether the UK nor the EU is a charity.
Perhaps you will remember this when the negotiations near completion and the EU continue to request countless billions from the UK without (so far) giving anything in return - and then wonder why the UK remains obstinate about making payment.

As I have said before those trading prices/rules will have to fit within the straight jacket of other rules in place.

Let us hope that the trade deals Liam Fox will negotiate on Britains behalf go quickly. PS don't forget to lobby your MP to protect your particular rights/product and/or market share.

Charity get "donations" Contracts entered into have financial settlements.

gfplux

Corporal_Perkins wrote: »

Firstly the UK didn't "sign up" to rules made on the cuff when the EU thinks them up without consulting all the other EU countries. IIRC The EU gave Eire a veto off the cuff. Secondly regarding the rules we did sign up to why does Germany run such a high trade surplus which is against EU rules?. Why do other EU countries fail to abide by the EU's debt rules?......... What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



You mean making rules up as and when they like without consulting other EU countries then I don't think any EU country likes it and won't stand for it. The migrant quota's being a good example where Hungary,Poland etc have told Merkel to go and do one. I don't think the EU understands how democracy works but they will find out soon enough but when the penny finally drops it will be too late.

How exactly is the EU protecting EU members when the country which runs the EU allows over 1,000,000 to just walk in without knowing who they are, where they are from or if they are a threat to EU Citizens.

How is the EU protecting Western European jobs when its subsidising the building of factories and buisnesses in Eastern Europe in direct competition to Western European businesses?..

Either your confused or the EU really don't care about "protecting its citizens"......

Welcome Corporal Perkins (ex military perhaps) you might not be aware that this and other threads have been live since the referendum. If you have a lot of time spare a read of those threads might or might not be useful.

Just to answer some of your points to help your understanding.

On your first point every one of the EU27 had a Veto on any deal. The ROI was not given special powers.

Germany may or may not be breaking the rules but that is for the EU parliament to sensure them. The Parliament is made up of MEP's many are from the UK and you will probably voted for one. I urge you to contact your MEP and tell them of your concerns.

Sorry if I miss any of your points.

Yes Speaking out of turn can cause problems over things like migration. Other people think that the desperate need for YOUNG people of working age made Merkel speak as she did. Strangely although you may consider her as the leader of the Western World she was only speaking about what was good for Germany. I suspect she knows exactly how Democracy works just as the members of Mrs Mays Government constantly speak out with a multiple of strategies and policies that are not Government policy.

The EU does not and will not protect (you really said that!) Western European jobs. It's called the EU28 soon to be EU27. It looks after its own.

If I have missed anything I apologise.

Just a final point. Many posters have critisize the EU for taking years, and years and years to do a trade deal. One thing (perhaps) everyone on this thread would agree about. The EU moves EXTREMELY SLOWLY.

Corporal_Perkins

ilovehouses wrote: »

I was being ironic. Democracy is agnostic and doesn't care who or what you vote for.

If your view of democracy depends on the result delivered that says more about you than democracy.

The vast majority of your posts have been about Brexit and how you can help overturn the democratic decision........

Think you may need to practice what you preach......

gfplux

Corporal_Perkins wrote: »

So you'd rather not reply to the points I raised in my post ?.. That's fine ,I'll just take it that you agree with me that EU countries ignore EU rules when it suits them and the EU doesn't in fact protect Western EU countries businesses/citizens.

I actually do have a major issue with previous UK govt's of both colours who have taken the UK into deeper integration without the backing of the people they supposedly represent. The Political elite in this country and indeed the EU is nothing short of dire.

I'm glad we agree........ Bit early for me but :beer:

Welcome again Corporal.
You have just said it again. "Protect Western countries businesses/citizens"
Who ever told you the EU was designed to do that.
It was designed to do two (ok many more) things.
Secure peace in Europe
And
Create a trading group that would have a lot of power.

Britain has chosen to go through the painful, difficult and complex process of leaving.

Cheers.

gfplux

I agree Democracy is difficult.

Britain has agreed to go through the difficult and complex process of leaving the EU.

Tromking

ilovehouses wrote: »

What you should note is the 'political class' haven't changed and if it becomes politically expedient to have another there will be one.

Too right, and with the current make up of Parliament being around 70% in favour of remain, they most certainly would if they could.
Sooner or later one of the major parties is going to have be an unapologetic anti EU membership party, if only to represent the vast swathes of the electorate who are already there as regards wanting to leave.
The British public IMO, is growing weary of politicians tasked with leaving the EU prefiixing their every utterance on Brexit with “I didn’t vote to leave myself but.........”.