Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Corporal_Perkins

gfplux wrote: »

Welcome again Corporal.
You have just said it again. "Protect Western countries businesses/citizens"
Who ever told you the EU was designed to do that.
It was designed to do two (ok many more) things.
Secure peace in Europe

NATO was designed to and has kept peace in Europe post WW2, not the EU which didn't even exist.

The EU was designed as a "Common Market" (A group of trading nations) and was never designed to be a Political Superstate and neither was it designed to include Eastern European countries which in allowing them to join has angered the Russians. Why do you think theres a war going on in the Ukraine?. To claim this is done on the basis of "keeping peace in Europe" is sheer folly.

What the EU should be clear about is telling it citizens that its aim was/is to transfer wealth from the West to the East but of coarse if the EU were open and honest about its goals/aims then it would fall apart tomorrow.

Britain has chosen to go through the painful, difficult and complex process of leaving.

Oh I've no doubt it will be painful for 5-10yrs but in the end leaving will be proved to have been the correct decision. I feel sorry for those people in the EU who would love to leave but with futher EU integration will find it impossible to leave peacefully.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

I am making a valid argument. Brexit is an inward looking escape from the wider world.

Brexit is actually symptomatic of a wider malaise between Western politicians and their voting citizens.

The election of Trump ploughed similar feelings of discontent over in the USA.

These issues people have are in some respects long seated. I think mass migration, whatever you think of it, shone a spotlight on the limitations in certain parts of our society.

Generally, people trust politicians to resolve these issues, but I guess the trust just ran out.

tracey3596

gfplux wrote: »

1) Already asked and answered by Ballard

And rebutted quite a few times since that post. Do keep up.

gfplux wrote: »

1) 2) The British public have voted to go through the difficult, painful and complex withdrawal from the EU

Indeed the British public did vote to leave the EU - but it is this same EU that have decided to make the process of leaving "difficult, painful and complex". There is no need whatsoever for it to be so other than EU intransigence. Fortunately it has at least shown many British citizens that the vote had the correct outcome.

gfplux wrote: »

3) Yes those everyday rules of the society we live in.

Yes, mostly irrelevant and with no real purpose other than EU quangoism.
Every single country outside the EU has their own laws.

gfplux wrote: »

1) Yes Democracy is difficult. Club rules don't always suite everyone. That's how society functions or not. Just ask the jay walker, the dog owners who don't pick up, the people who drop litter, the red light jumper, the speeder etc, etc, what they think of rules.

Now you're just having a laugh!
Increasingly other EU member countries are seeing just how unfair the rules of the EU can be, hence the surge in populism within core EU countries like France, Germany and the Netherlands. Ask Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic - even your own Luxembourg who has just had it's appeal re: Apple fines rejected again as well as seen Juncker facing investigations for illegal wiretapping from before he resigned as PM in 2013.
Yes, democracy is difficult for some.

Moby

buglawton wrote: »

I don't recall there being an EU during WW1 or WW2. Yet likeminded countries quickly joined together in defence against a new and unforeseen threat. NATO exists for this purpose today. Let's not use defence as an excuse for the UK to be part of the federal states of Europe.

This not 1945...this is 2017. Different era, different threats.

Moby

Corporal_Perkins wrote: »

Firstly the UK didn't "sign up" to rules made on the cuff when the EU thinks them up without consulting all the other EU countries. IIRC The EU gave Eire a veto off the cuff. Secondly regarding the rules we did sign up to why does Germany run such a high trade surplus which is against EU rules?. Why do other EU countries fail to abide by the EU's debt rules?......... What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



You mean making rules up as and when they like without consulting other EU countries then I don't think any EU country likes it and won't stand for it. The migrant quota's being a good example where Hungary,Poland etc have told Merkel to go and do one. I don't think the EU understands how democracy works but they will find out soon enough but when the penny finally drops it will be too late.

How exactly is the EU protecting EU members when the country which runs the EU allows over 1,000,000 to just walk in without knowing who they are, where they are from or if they are a threat to EU Citizens.

How is the EU protecting Western European jobs when its subsidising the building of factories and buisnesses in Eastern Europe in direct competition to Western European businesses?..

Either your confused or the EU really don't care about "protecting its citizens"......

The EU has a commission which is answerable to the parliament and we, like the other members had MEP's. we voted for. Re. the East European entrants a decision was taken in the early 90's we should allow them in because they would then be in the EU's orbit of influence instead of Russia's. Think wider, the reasons for many things are long term.

tracey3596

Moby wrote: »

This not 1945...this is 2017. Different era, different threats.

Really?
So why does the EU so badly want PESCO?

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

Brexit is actually symptomatic of a wider malaise between Western politicians and their voting citizens.

The election of Trump ploughed similar feelings of discontent over in the USA.

These issues people have are in some respects long seated. I think mass migration, whatever you think of it, shone a spotlight on the limitations in certain parts of our society.

Generally, people trust politicians to resolve these issues, but I guess the trust just ran out.

Agreed. The bigger question is can the pendulum swing the other way?
I suspect not. Add apathy to cynicism to the electorate and perhaps Democracy is broken.

tracey3596

Moby wrote: »

Think wider, the reasons for many things are long term.

Perhaps you could remember that when discussing Brexit.

Moby

tracey3596 wrote: »

Now you're just having a laugh!
Increasingly other EU member countries are seeing just how unfair the rules of the EU can be, hence the surge in populism within core EU countries like France, Germany and the Netherlands. Ask Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic - even your own Luxembourg who has just had it's appeal re: Apple fines rejected again as well as seen Juncker facing investigations for illegal wiretapping from before he resigned as PM in 2013.
Yes, democracy is difficult for some.

No...this is you wishful thinking out of EU hatred. You look for anything you can find that's wrong and concentrate on it, instead of the big picture. The big picture shows that the 26 have not been split by the UK and are presenting a united front. You go on about JUncker but don't say anything about Johnson, Gove or Fox. Do you know for instance that Gove has just said he would like to get rid of the working time directive. How do you think working class people will feel having their conditions of service decided by the tories?

Moby

tracey3596 wrote: »

Perhaps you could remember that when discussing Brexit.

I do I just come to a different end result than you. The brexiteer vision of Johnson, Gove and Fox does not attract me. I'm a worker who will fight for his rights and won't just bend over to the elite in the UK.