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Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5
Comments
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vivatifosi wrote: »The issue is that the cabinet are all quite happy briefing against each other and against the deal. Even if the likes of Davies thinks the deal can be broken, he should keep it zipped until the whole deal is done or not done, or it makes him look like a dishonest broker. It's as though they can't help themselves.
When Britain's "chief negotiator" says the phase one deal can be broken does he hope that these words will be ignored by the EU27. That they will put it down as words only for the domestic audience. Or does he hope to upset one or two who will vote against "sufficient progress"
He and others by speaking out this weekend have not made it any easier for the EU27 to vote yes. If they do vote yes we must assume they think those words have no meaning.There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.0 -
After posting 2440 above I then read the Politico EU daily email. Which had this.
"Not this again: However David Davis’ attempts to reassure Tory Euroskeptics on the Marr Show yesterday may have gone a little too far, triggering an angry response from Dublin. The Irish government’s Chief Whip Joe McHugh insisted that contrary to Davis’ comments, the Brexit deal is “binding” and that to suggest otherwise would be “bizarre.” Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney actually subtweeted Davis by posting sections of the agreement online. Eventually a U.K. government source was forced to issue a statement making clear Britain is indeed fully committed to the deal it has spent the past six months negotiating— while also pointing out that only the final deal itself can ever be legally binding. “There is no question of our commitment to the text of the joint report,” the source said. “Ministers, the Irish government, and the European Commission all agree that it is the withdrawal agreement itself which has status in law.” May will be desperate to be avoid any further flare-ups with Ireland when she meets with EU27 leaders later this week to get the deal formally signed off.
There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.0 -
After posting 2440 above I then read the Politico EU daily email. Which had this.
"Not this again: However David Davis’ attempts to reassure Tory Euroskeptics on the Marr Show yesterday may have gone a little too far, triggering an angry response from Dublin. The Irish government’s Chief Whip Joe McHugh insisted that contrary to Davis’ comments, the Brexit deal is “binding” and that to suggest otherwise would be “bizarre.” Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney actually subtweeted Davis by posting sections of the agreement online. Eventually a U.K. government source was forced to issue a statement making clear Britain is indeed fully committed to the deal it has spent the past six months negotiating— while also pointing out that only the final deal itself can ever be legally binding. “There is no question of our commitment to the text of the joint report,” the source said. “Ministers, the Irish government, and the European Commission all agree that it is the withdrawal agreement itself which has status in law.” May will be desperate to be avoid any further flare-ups with Ireland when she meets with EU27 leaders later this week to get the deal formally signed off.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.If I don't reply to your post,
you're probably on my ignore list.0 -
The Irish government’s Chief Whip Joe McHugh insisted that contrary to Davis’ comments, the Brexit deal is “binding” and that to suggest otherwise would be “bizarre".
He's lying. The document begins:2. Both Parties have reached agreement in principle across the following three areas under consideration in the first phase of negotiations, on which further detail is set out in this report:
a. protecting the rights of Union citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the Union;
b. the framework for addressing the unique circumstances in Northern Ireland; and
c. the financial settlement.
...
5. Under the caveat that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, the joint commitments set out below in this joint report shall be reflected in the Withdrawal Agreement in full detail. This does not prejudge any adaptations that might be appropriate in case transitional arrangements were to be agreed in the second phase of the negotiations, and is without prejudice to discussions on the framework of the future relationship.0 -
Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »Enforceable under which law?
Debts and contracts are enforceable under UK common law. If you're arguing that the debts and contracts are fictitious, then that is for the courts to decide.Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »He's lying. The document begins:
So what you're saying is that neither the Irish government or EU should believe a word the UK government say? What I think is laughable is that he thinks he can do a deal with the EU that screws Ireland over.
It's like marrying a girl and then telling her mum you're still on the market. It only works if her mum is as morally bankrupt as you are, or the people who think davis plan is the way forward.
I expect the EU will issue a statement soon saying that unless davis changes his stance then actually we're not moving on with the trade talks, because there is no point in continuing if the UK government are negotiating in bad faith.
I wonder if then the EU will back out of the deal over WTO quotas that we need before we can start trading on WTO terms. On the face of it, no deal means no imports and no exports to anywhere. If the EU hasn't learned from our underhanded tactics yet they need to act fast.
Of course Davis has flipped and now says that it's not just legally enforceable, it's "much more than legally enforceable" (whatever that means).
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/11/theresa-may-statement-brexit-mps-commons-davis-seeks-to-heal-rift-with-ireland-over-brexit-deal-politics-live
A very slippery weasel.0 -
A brexiteer phones in...“When I go into Northwick Park hospital… 120 people in there, I was lucky if I saw three or four white faces.”The caller went on to say the UK had “lost its identity” and claimed that 22 out of 23 tills he had seen open at his local supermarket “had Indians or Pakistani people” working on them.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-supporter-vote-leave-eu-lack-white-faces-hospital-james-obrien-lbc-northwick-park-a8099561.html“This is why people have voted out of Europe,” he said.Don't blame me, I voted Remain.0 -
mayonnaise wrote: »
he doesn't speak for every one, despite what Mr J' OB believes0 -
Yes indeed and even the EU accept that it is not legally binding.Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »He's lying. The document begins:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-gentlemen/may-shook-on-gentlemens-agreement-on-brexit-deal-eu-says-idUKKBN1E5192“Formally speaking, the joint report is not legally binding,” the European Commission’s chief spokesman Margaritis Schinas told reporters when asked about suggestions from some of May’s ministers that the terms of Friday’s accord could change.
So whilst both parties have shaken hands in a so-called gentlemen's agreement the outcome is dependent upon both sides continuing to agree and then also reaching a mutually satisfactory conclusion. Otherwise (as has been said) "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed".
Now let's see if - just for once - the EU bigwigs can contain their garrulity before this week's European Council meeting.0 -
mayonnaise wrote: »
That's funny considering he's going to get a lot more brown faces because of his Brexit vote. As one of the banned posters I can't mention because if I do then I will also be banned for mentioning the banned - used to say. The EU is a white Christian club.
UKIP wishes to embrace the world (not sure if that policy has filtered down to the rank and file though).0 -
Clapton isn't banned so should be safe to mention.That's funny considering he's going to get a lot more brown faces because of his Brexit vote. As one of the banned posters I can't mention because if I do then I will also be banned for mentioning the banned - used to say. The EU is a white Christian club.Don't blame me, I voted Remain.0
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